Belt Drive vs Direct Drive and which one?

[SOS]

Is this the Topwing cartridge you are referring to? Suzaku https://www.topwing.jp/RedSparrow.html

 

[bonzo75]

Is this the Topwing cartridge you are referring to? Suzaku https://www.topwing.jp/RedSparrow.html

Yes. There are also reports of it sounding great with Thales statement. It sounds thin and etched when not set up correctly

 

[Audiohertz2]

Yes. There are also reports of it sounding great with Thales statement. It sounds thin and etched when not set up correctly

Care to define , how do you set them up correctly ..?

 

[SOS]

@bonzo75 Yes.

So was researching info on the Suzaku and came across this info on another Forum thread.

"The Top Wing Suzaku is clearly a moving magnet.
My understanding is that the low output is a consequence of using a very small coil to minimise capacitance and minimise inductance in the overall design - meaning the resonant frequency is very high, making the cartridge less susceptible to phase shifts in the high frequency compared to most MM's. The high frequency response in the audio band relatively unaffected by loading".

So I'm a bit confused. With its low output I'm assuming you must run it into a MC stage? Can you use a SUT with the Suzaku into a MM stage? Again just curious how it's being used.

 

[mtemur]

With its low output I'm assuming you must run it into a MC stage? Can you use a SUT with the Suzaku into a MM stage? Again just curious how it's being used.

AFAIK Suzaku used as connected to MC input of phono stage. At least the one I heard couple of times was used that way. Since it has very few turns in coils it might be possible to connect it to a SUT.

"The Top Wing Suzaku is clearly a moving magnet.
My understanding is that the low output is a consequence of using a very small coil to minimise capacitance and minimise inductance in the overall design - meaning the resonant frequency is very high, making the cartridge less susceptible to phase shifts in the high frequency compared to most MM's. The high frequency response in the audio band relatively unaffected by loading".

Spot on description IMHO.

 

[morricab]

Coincidence, comparing Helix 1 with Reed 5T and atlas lambda to Vertere table and arm with Vertere cartridge.

can be compared at KJ west one in London

View attachment 128098

This looks like a Helix 2 not a Helix 1

 

[bonzo75]

This looks like a Helix 2 not a Helix 1

He mentioned Helix 1 - I don't know what the visual difference is.

 

[morricab]

He mentioned Helix 1 - I don't know what the visual difference is.

THey are visually different...have a look on the Dohmann website.

 

[bonzo75]

THey are visually different...have a look on the Dohmann website.

ok, just emailed the manager, it was a Helix 2. My confusion

 

[Audiohertz2]

So was researching info on the Suzaku and came across this info on another Forum thread.

"The Top Wing Suzaku is clearly a moving magnet.
My understanding is that the low output is a consequence of using a very small coil to minimise capacitance and minimise inductance in the overall design - meaning the resonant frequency is very high, making the cartridge less susceptible to phase shifts in the high frequency compared to most MM's. The high frequency response in the audio band relatively unaffected by loading".

So I'm a bit confused. With its low output I'm assuming you must run it into a MC stage? Can you use a SUT with the Suzaku into a MM stage? Again just curious how it's being used.

A SUT ( matched) will be sonically superior than going into your MC stage IMO ..


Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

ok, just emailed the manager, it was a Helix 2. My confusion

Confusion noted ...!

 

[SOS]

Hate to side-track these discussions but who has had direct experience using the Top Wing Suzaku?

 

[bonzo75]

Hate to side-track these discussions but who has had direct experience using the Top Wing Suzaku?

You will find a lot on the audioexotics forum on Thales statement.

PM Audioquattr, he does not post much here but hfas the RS on Vyger, many VDH master Strad and Grand Cru on AF3p, also the Airtight Opus and the Grado, and the Dava, and has had others pass through there. My friend Bill who is not on the forum anymore, and the General who obviously introduced it to him, me and audioquattr on the Vyger.

Vess now owns one with the Vyger, he also owns the Dava. You can PM Vess.

byrdparis owns it on the Vyger he also has many other carts and pivots.

I have had negative experiences too - as have had those who tried it with SME 3012r, SME V, Schroeder CB. Audioquattr loves it with the Vyger but was unable to get it to sing on his many pivots - he has Ikeda, 3012r, Graham Elite.

It is still more classical and jazz. If you want all rounded including on rock, try the Dava field coil. Both are very different sounds.

 

[SOS]

Thanks @bonzo75 for the info much appreciated.

 

[Audiohertz2]

You will find a lot on the audioexotics forum on Thales statement.

PM Audioquattr, he does not post much here but hfas the RS on Vyger, many VDH master Strad and Grand Cru on AF3p, also the Airtight Opus and the Grado, and the Dava, and has had others pass through there. My friend Bill who is not on the forum anymore, and the General who obviously introduced it to him, me and audioquattr on the Vyger.

Vess now owns one with the Vyger, he also owns the Dava. You can PM Vess.

byrdparis owns it on the Vyger he also has many other carts and pivots.

I have had negative experiences too - as have had those who tried it with SME 3012r, SME V, Schroeder CB. Audioquattr loves it with the Vyger but was unable to get it to sing on his many pivots - he has Ikeda, 3012r, Graham Elite.

It is still more classical and jazz. If you want all rounded including on rock, try the Dava field coil. Both are very different sounds.

Do you know what the cart resonance is on the arms it did not work on ..?

 

[bonzo75]

Do you know what the cart resonance is on the arms it did not work on ..?

the post you replied to, only one pattern is clearly jumping out.

 

[mtemur]

Hate to side-track these discussions but who has had direct experience using the Top Wing Suzaku?

Sorry for jumping in I heard Suzaku a couple of times with Thales and I’m not impressed at all. For me it’s a tweaked MM cartridge, vague, distant, not dynamic. YMMV.

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry for jumping in I heard Suzaku a couple of times with Thales and I’m not impressed at all. For me it’s a tweaked MM cartridge, vague, distant, not dynamic. YMMV.

this is how it sounds badly set up - not dynamic, thin etched, lacking weight

 

[Loheswaran]

Two superb belt drives that are similar sounding to DD’s are both the DPS and Artemis Labs SA1 - not sure if the Artemis is still made though. I must say I don’t get the logic of a low torque DD

 

[Lee]

Really? That would be quite something if true. And Fremer’s is not a production model. It is a prototype if I recall correctly.

there is also that new KL audio turntable with the automatic clamping system and fluid filled platter.

Liquid mids.