Belt Drive vs Direct Drive and which one?

[skinnyfla]

Hi,
after about 10 years I`m thinking about upgrading my Turntable. I`m thinking about a Direct Drive as an alternative. Obviously the choice with Belt Drive is much bigger, never had the chance to compare both… anyone have any experience?

Here are my current options:

Primary Control (Kinea)
TechDAS Airforce V or III premium
Kuzma (any model between Stabi R up to Stabi M)
Brinkmann Balance
TW Acoustic Raven LS
J. Sikora (not familiar with)

… anyone like to share experience or make further suggestions?

Best,

Christoph

 

[bonzo75]

Hi,
after about 10 years I`m thinking about upgrading my Turntable. I`m thinking about a Direct Drive as an alternative. Obviously the choice with Belt Drive is much bigger, never had the chance to compare both… anyone have any experience?

Here are my current options:

Primary Control (Kinea)
TechDAS Airforce V or III premium
Kuzma (any model between Stabi R up to Stabi M)
Brinkmann Balance
TW Acoustic Raven LS
J. Sikora (not familiar with)

… anyone like to share experience or make further suggestions?

Best,

Christoph

What type of music and records do you listen to?

 

[skinnyfla]

What type of music and records do you listen to?

… if I were to summarize with one term it would probably be rock… anything from punk to ska to psychobilly and rockabilly to country and folk to singer/songwriter… almost no jazz and classic…

 

[bonzo75]

… if I were to summarize with one term it would probably be rock… anything from punk to ska to psychobilly and rockabilly to country and folk to singer/songwriter… almost no jazz and classic…

I think you should go direct drive or idler...and if you are ok to do a bit of set up get the Dava field coil cartridge which is direct from manufactuer in LIthuania for around 8 - 9k euro (that includes required power supply), with a 6 month wait. My friends who like rock prefer DDs like Monaco or idlers like Garrard. Haven't auditioned the Primary Control TT properly so can't help there. Also try Techdas AF3p if your budget permits, but I would put more money on the Dava and go with the Garrard if budget was an issue.

 

[Solypsa]

Kinea and Motus both are on the 'musical flow' side of direct drive ( vs say Technics ) .

 

[skinnyfla]

… sounds good & different to my current setup - although I obviously don’t want to „downgrade“… but I think I will give a direct drive a listen and see if it’s an alternative …

 

[skinnyfla]

Kinea and Motus both are on the 'musical flow' side of direct drive ( vs say Technics ) .

… well stst might be an option - as I live in Germany. How would you say they compare to Primary Control and also to the other Belt Drives above…

 

[Tangram]

On your list I’ve owned a predecessor to the Raven LS, the Raven One, and I own a Stabi R. It is a bit tough to compare the two because I was using a Graham Phantom 2.2 arm on the Raven One, and I have a 4Point 11 on the Stabi R. That said, I had the same cartridge, an Etsuro Urushi Cobalt Blue on each. What I can say is the Stabi R is the more enjoyable of the two to interact with. The rigid belt means it starts up almost like a direct drive, and personally, I like having an all-in-one (the Raven One has an outboard motor controller). I think it is built into the Raven LS though. That looks like an excellent table. FWIW, I listen mostly to rock (we have similar music tastes) and although I haven’t made a direct comparison with an idler or dd table, I find my Stabi R setup very enjoyable with more “aggressive” music. One of my favourite demo songs when friends come over is YYZ from Rush’s Moving Pictures. If you are familiar with this song, on the right system it gets your head bobbing almost as soon as it starts. Honestly, you can’t go too far wrong with either the Kuzma or the TW Acustic. That said, your list of possible tables contains some stiff competition.

 

[skinnyfla]

On your list I’ve owned a predecessor to the Raven LS, the Raven One, and I own a Stabi R. It is a bit tough to compare the two because I was using a Graham Phantom 2.2 arm on the Raven One, and I have a 4Point 11 on the Stabi R. That said, I had the same cartridge, an Etsuro Urushi Cobalt Blue on each. What I can say is the Stabi R is the more enjoyable of the two to interact with. The rigid belt means it starts up almost like a direct drive, and personally, I like having an all-in-one (the Raven One has an outboard motor controller). I think it is built into the Raven LS though. That looks like an excellent table. FWIW, I listen mostly to rock (we have similar music tastes) and although I haven’t made a direct comparison with an idler or dd table, I find my Stabi R setup very enjoyable with more “aggressive” music. One of my favourite demo songs when friends come over is YYZ from Rush’s Moving Pictures. If you are familiar with this song, on the right system it gets your head bobbing almost as soon as it starts. Honestly, you can’t go too far wrong with either the Kuzma or the TW Acustic. That said, your list of possible tables contains some stiff competition.

Thanks for sharing - the Stabi R is actually pretty high up on my list and I believe it is one of the less expensive solutions - but I really love the design and would probably even prefere it to the TechDAS V (which to me is similar designwise)… I did read about it playing very precise and like a good mix between BD and DD for that exact reason - the rigid belt… also is a classic at an interesting price… it`s all interesting

 

[Solypsa]

… well stst might be an option - as I live in Germany. How would you say they compare to Primary Control and also to the other Belt Drives above…

I can reply by PM a little later.

Meanwhile if your location would allow you a day in Stuttgart, Fastaudio has three of your tables of interest .

Also wbf member from Germany @shakti has possibly some interesting comparisons on hand.

 

[skinnyfla]

I can reply by PM a little later.

Meanwhile if your location would allow you a day in Stuttgart, Fastaudio has three of your tables of interest .

Also wbf member from Germany @shakti has possibly some interesting comparisons on hand.

… yeah, thanks - been to Shaktis (close) and enjoyed it very much… also know Thomas Fast from former room treatment… still making up my mind which way to go and taking peoples experience into account before making further appointments though… happy to hear your thoughts via PM

 

[Croc999]

FWIW - there is interview with Franc Kuzma where he talks about improving stability of belt driving turnables by using DC motor (vs AC) and rigid belt (vs elastic).
Obviously we can suspect he's biased but his logic made sense to me.
I'm saying this in a contest of if you're looking for pitch stable belt drive turntable perhaps you will want to evaluate these points.
If Stabi R is a "cheap" for you - so TechDAS-wise maybe you can stretch to 3 Premium.
The air bearing and vacuum hold are sound tempting and kinda "perfect thing" but if you read reviews between the lines there are some cons.
Also i saw few cases of non TechDAS dealers offering TechDAS for sale that they traded in - i'm asking myself if TechDAS is so perfect why owners switch to something else?
So be cautious and judge with your own ears.
As we all should do. Always

 

[skinnyfla]

Yeah, the Stabi R is actually the most affordable on my list - and that quite by far. But for reasons I can`t explain it`s been on my mind for a long long time. I actually really like the design (reminds me of earlier Micro Seikis). Also everythig I read about it sounds as if it would fit my personal taste soundwise. While the Stabi M is supposed to be more resolving, tha Stabi R is supposed to play very powerful, round, strong bass and very musical - some actually say the M is more analytical and "high end" in that sense, but the R is more musical.

At the other end of budget lies the most expensive, the TechDAS - again similar to older Micro Seiki - but there is so much "technical" stuff involved that it gets me worried what will happen in case of needed service. Also more on the "soft" side and not as powerful as the R from what I read...

The ones in between - well, AF V I think not - then rather stretch to the II or go with the Stabi R. Leaving the other options, including a direct drive... but then again the Stabi R is supposed to be the ideal mix between a DD and a BD (as @Croc999 points out with regard to the technical side)...

... so yeah, the Stabi R has a lot going for it... save money, buy more wine or records... sounds fine to me too...

... but I`m still making up my mind between the listed TTs - really unsure where things will end...

 

[nmartynk]

Very interesting thread!

I am in the same boat as @skinnyfla:

Listening mostly to (psychedelic) rock, indie and reggea, no jazz and classic, looking for a high-end turntable 10k - 25k range, being from Germany as well.

Skinnyfla, whats about Brinkmann Taurus? Noticed that you are familiar with Brinkmann decks...

 

[skinnyfla]

… yes, I own and have lived with the Brinkmann LaGrange (incl. Rönt II) for the last 10 years… just feel it may be time for a change… something new would have to be significantly better or different… I doubt the Taurus will be much better than the LaGrange - if I should stay with Brinkmann it would have to be the Balance…

 

[Croc999]

@skinnyfla since you have an access for a demo decks (some maybe even can be demoed at your place) - this is a big luxury that many don't have.
All decks (actually most of my HiFi gear) i bought without possibility to audition first - purely based on reviews, recommendations and hunch.
So i'd say enjoy the journey and the research

 

[exupgh12]

If you're delving into DD TT, it's worth giving thought to the Brinkmann Taurus. The company also offers excellent BD TT options.

 

[morricab]

Hi,
after about 10 years I`m thinking about upgrading my Turntable. I`m thinking about a Direct Drive as an alternative. Obviously the choice with Belt Drive is much bigger, never had the chance to compare both… anyone have any experience?

Here are my current options:

Primary Control (Kinea)
TechDAS Airforce V or III premium
Kuzma (any model between Stabi R up to Stabi M)
Brinkmann Balance
TW Acoustic Raven LS
J. Sikora (not familiar with)

… anyone like to share experience or make further suggestions?

Best,

Christoph

Brinkmann also makes DD in the Bardo, Oasis and Taurus. They all use the same DD motor and platter but there are different options and standard equipment for each.

 

[Argonaut]

… yes, I own and have lived with the Brinkmann LaGrange (incl. Rönt II) for the last 10 years… just feel it may be time for a change… something new would have to be significantly better or different…

You are eying up some big hitters in that list of very fine turntables , however have you also considered the motor upgrade to your incumbent LaGrange ( assuming that you havn’t made that modification already )

 

[skinnyfla]

You are eying up some big hitters in that list of very fine turntables , however have you also considered the motor upgrade to your LaGrange ( assuming that you havn’t made that modification already )

... I actually have - had it upgraded 5 years ago, it has the Sinus Motor (though I believe there has been a further/new update recently) and also the new bearing... I like the LaGrange by quite a bit, just feel like it`s time to look around for something different... obviously there is always the option to stick with the LaGrange if nothing really knocks me off my rocker ;-)