talk to Mik (member @108CY)......he can tell you. he owns 3 Rockport Sirius III turntables......and pretty much everything else too.
or ask Jonathan Weiss.
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Belt Drive vs Direct Drive and which one?
- Thread starter skinnyfla
- Start date
or ask Jonathan Weiss.
Yes, read that a long time ago and it was influential on my thinking about TT design. I have only DD turntables now…
i'll answer you only to say than no design element exists in isolation. and there is a rainbow of approaches involving the whole design. change the degree of execution or precision of any of those elements and the balance of the design is altered. lower the mass of the AS-2000 platter and it's a different turntable. change the material of the plinth and arm boards and it's different. and that is just for starters. so the fact its a string drive is only one part of the design. degrees of execution matter. David's new super AS-2000 will be different than yours in various ways. but will still be string drive i assume.
Fremer is now reviewing the new magnetic idler drive Wilson Benesch turntable. i'm hearing very positive feedback. if he thinks it's the best will it be because of it being 'not' direct drive, or 'not' a belt/string drive? not really......it will be because of all the little design choices. not fundamentally drive dogma.
thank you Mike. I understand what you meant now. It’s an incredibly complex subject and difficult challenge for the designer. I understand very little about the factors involved.
Agree. Both technologies if implemented effectively can be excellent and the opposite.
Fremer is now reviewing the new magnetic idler drive Wilson Benesch turntable. i'm hearing very positive feedback. if he thinks it's the best will it be because of it being 'not' direct drive, or 'not' a belt/string drive? not really......it will be because of all the little design choices. not fundamentally drive dogma.
Also, the turntable is one important component of vinyl playback, however the arm, cartridge, phono preamp and cables along with effective / appropriate isolation all play together in making an excellent analog system.
It is an older article and things have changed with more modern technology. I also read it back then and it likewise influenced my thinking about TT design. There are the various technical considerations and of course there are other factors as some have mentioned -- as a source vinyl playback runs from setup and input at the cartridge through the phono amplifier.
A critical understanding I took from the article was that the amplitude portion of the musical waveform comes from the cartridge, but the frequency portion, the time element of that waveform, comes from the turntable. What struck me about the responses here is how the larger message of the article was ignored, viz. the fundamental qualification of a good turntable design is stable speed accuracy.
… but stable speed seems to be achieved „easier“ or „better“ by using DD (also according to Jonathan Weiss) - so why are 99% BD?
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... just being curious - anyone have any experience with the stuff made by Thomas Schick?
schick 14 - record player - Thomas Schick
thomas-schick.com
... just being curious - anyone have any experience with the stuff made by Thomas Schick?
schick 14 - record player - Thomas Schick
thomas-schick.com
If you buy that, I am visiting you to listen once it is set up. His stuff is the best sounding analog in Munich shows...next to the tape and the digital playing with it as well as Schroder stuff. However don't know how the stuff he sells compares, and if any of these tables have actually landed in the hands of private users. At Munich it is he himself and Schroder manning the analog in the WE room.
You might get more information on the Lenco heaven forum.
I own all 3 types of turntables. I have a direct drive, belt drive and idler (actually 3 types of idler). Although not as august as some mentioned here, none of the tables are exactly mid-fi.;
I find direct drives to be very precise. They capture notes perfectly and therefore appear very detailed. For me, they do chop off the decay of notes, making them precise but somehow robbing the music of its ebb and flow- just like digital. These elements are crucial in making music... well music. Other's perceptions may be different as their priorities are different. Who am I to say who is right?
Idlers I find interesting. My smallest is a ThorensTD 124, then an EMT and lastly an extraordinarily large monster that is so complex that it works as often as a Goldmund arm. All of these add excitement to the sound. As the table gets larger and its motor bigger the sound gets more exciting. The biggest has the same congenitally flawed motor as the largest AF.
I have a theory and it may be wrong. I believe idlers add a subliminal amount of quiet noise to the sound. This is not heard as noise but does push the noise floor slightly higher. This, I believe is the same as a creative engineer recording music but then gently adding a compressor to make sounds "pop" .This element makes the sound of an idler so exciting and why an idler with a bigger motor sounds so much more exciting than one with a smaller motor. Most of these machines. have the same speed and W&F, yet the bigger motors sound faster and more exciting. Just a theory, don't shoot me. I certainly know that my EMT idler with Banana arm and the latest, Thales-built, TSD is far from the best I own, yet if I do not get my "fix" at least every few days, I am grumpy.
Pre-ATR Ampexes have the same exciting sound, much more than the contemporary Studers. The Studers are mechanically quiet machines and a 440 is hell of a noisy but sounds more exciting. Same reason?
I find direct drives to be very precise. They capture notes perfectly and therefore appear very detailed. For me, they do chop off the decay of notes, making them precise but somehow robbing the music of its ebb and flow- just like digital. These elements are crucial in making music... well music. Other's perceptions may be different as their priorities are different. Who am I to say who is right?
Idlers I find interesting. My smallest is a ThorensTD 124, then an EMT and lastly an extraordinarily large monster that is so complex that it works as often as a Goldmund arm. All of these add excitement to the sound. As the table gets larger and its motor bigger the sound gets more exciting. The biggest has the same congenitally flawed motor as the largest AF.
I have a theory and it may be wrong. I believe idlers add a subliminal amount of quiet noise to the sound. This is not heard as noise but does push the noise floor slightly higher. This, I believe is the same as a creative engineer recording music but then gently adding a compressor to make sounds "pop" .This element makes the sound of an idler so exciting and why an idler with a bigger motor sounds so much more exciting than one with a smaller motor. Most of these machines. have the same speed and W&F, yet the bigger motors sound faster and more exciting. Just a theory, don't shoot me. I certainly know that my EMT idler with Banana arm and the latest, Thales-built, TSD is far from the best I own, yet if I do not get my "fix" at least every few days, I am grumpy.
Pre-ATR Ampexes have the same exciting sound, much more than the contemporary Studers. The Studers are mechanically quiet machines and a 440 is hell of a noisy but sounds more exciting. Same reason?
Haha - I`ll let you know, you can bring some good British IPAs on the way ;-)
He was actually recommended to me by Michael Ulbrich from Consolidated Audio, who made my SUT. I`ve been in touch with Schick briefly, because I was interested in his Tonearms and he offered me to demo his TT and actually sell one... might pick up on his offer later this year... still making up my mind which way to go about this whole TT change... good thing is, there`s no rush... my Brinkmann just came back fully serviced
Haha - I`ll let you know, you can bring some good British IPAs on the way ;-)
He was actually recommended to me by Michael Ulbrich from Consolidated Audio, who made my SUT. I`ve been in touch with Schick briefly, because I was interested in his Tonearms and he offered me to demo his TT and actually sell one... might pick up on his offer later this year... still making up my mind which way to go about this whole TT change... good thing is, there`s no rush... my Brinkmann just came back fully serviced
i would definitely take up the demo. Don’t miss it for anything. If you are in Germany there is a lot for you to learn from Schick, Mayer, and Silvercore on systems, set up, horns, amps etc. much better to do that then take opinions from strangers on forums. You will get many opinions and you will find out if they are correct or not only if you follow many…that’s expensive.
if invited I will come over for the demo. Ready to fly on short notice. Will bring good rock LPs.
... really kinda forgot about this - next time I`m in Berlin I´ll see if I can get to visit... I`ll let you know
I’ve moved from Stabi M to Techdas IIIP, and they are quite different sounding tables. Techdas is very quiet (low noise floor) compared to Kuzma. On a clean record, it sounds like digital, but in a good sense
And I think, as a consequence, it is a more resolving TT. But it is a bit less dynamic than Kuzma. Kuzma also has a slightly different tone, richer than Techdas, definitely less neutral. Anyway, it’s all very subjective and you can enjoy both, but in my view Techdas is a superior table, as it should be at almost 3 times the price of Kuzma.… you‘d probably have to compare the TechDAS to the Kuzma XL to be it fair though…I’ve moved from Stabi M to Techdas IIIP, and they are quite different sounding tables. Techdas is very quiet (low noise floor) compared to Kuzma. On a clean record, it sounds like digital, but in a good sense
Why not consider the Melco for sale here on WBF. It’s already in Germany
… I know very little about that TT, the model and the table itself… also I really want to take my time and not go for the quick occasion, there‘s no rush as my Brinkmann is fine and I want to see where any alternatives may get me… of course a used TT can be an option, but I need to figure out what I really want first…
