Tens of thousands of audiophiles would beg to differ.
What does that even mean?
Best audiophile switch
- Thread starter Frankie67
- Start date
If you would give a logical answer why, then I wouldn't consider it another audiophile fantasy.Tens of thousands of audiophiles would beg to differ.
What does that even mean?
But looking briefly on what is use (streaming server and using it within a home internet network) , I can understand why they would think a high end switch solves the problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.
I created my own system 30 years ago and never had issues. I updated it once since then to have an dante network and got rid of point to point streaming.
But since these audio toys that are available in this market are based on outdated technology, establishing low latency networking starts at the router.
So you create a router server. Which can be easily done with any computer made in the last 10 years.
Switches' non blocking rate is significantly higher than all the ports on it with its bandwidth combined and VLAN is for poor people that can't afford to run dedicated networks. (I really don't care if you call me a snob about this)
So you create a router server. Which can be easily done with any computer made in the last 10 years.
Switches' non blocking rate is significantly higher than all the ports on it with its bandwidth combined and VLAN is for poor people that can't afford to run dedicated networks. (I really don't care if you call me a snob about this)
Can we get back to talking about opinions on the best audiophile switches.
If you don't care for switches, I'm not sure why you would trouble yourself with this thread
If you don't care for switches, I'm not sure why you would trouble yourself with this thread
switches are a moot point compare to other things about a network or even how the network is laid out.
Having already published papers and thousands of posts on the subject I’m not inclined to waste my time indulging your skepticism sparkie.
just out of curiosity, what switch are you than using?
My network is multiple networks. The music server , I run a AMD Athlon II (that replaced an Intel pentium4) with 10G and 1G multi-port network cards on a 2005 Dell inspiron (with pfsense currently) as the router. The switches are non-green unmanaged switches I bought at walmart for like $10. Never had issues streaming when I used that network only and back then all I had in the router was two 1G x 4 intel network cards and was suprised the intel 10G card worked on the Dell.
I reprogrammed my server when I upgraded last so it would play the track on the server machine and out on a Dante Network by DVS (on two 1G ports) then into two Yamaha SWR2100P-5G that runs to three rooms that have focusrite AM2 (that were upgraded from Dante AV adapters) and one that goes into the studio that has another cheap switch to four Focusrite RedNet 16X16 and a RME Digiface Dante. With the network set at 192K and my master clock is the RME. So far I haven't had issues.
I know I run different hardware and systems than you guys have, but if I can do 48x56 of i/o on 64x64 @192K with cheap switches why do you guys have issues with simple stereo streaming? The only reason I have the Yamaha switches is because I bought them as a package with the three Focusrite AM2, otherwise I would just use some cheap POE switches.
Maybe its wiring or just bad install planning? I really don't understand why some have issues.
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Oh now I get your fallacy. It’s not at all about having any technical issues in this thread. It’s solely about achieving the best audio quality.
(If you believe there isn’t any difference at all between switches you might read one of the many articles on various magazines, blogs etc that outline this in more detail).
(If you believe there isn’t any difference at all between switches you might read one of the many articles on various magazines, blogs etc that outline this in more detail).
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Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
I would not call you a snob, but I would call you uninformed until you actually try an audiophile switch.
I have no issues at all and the outdated methods those streaming servers is using is so 90s winamp internet radio.
Its because the streaming server method has been always been inefficient and IP audio transports like AES67 and Dante are much more efficient at what they do.
There's a thread made for this discussion: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ed-for-all-of-these-digital-components.38969/
Sorry, but you have no idea how a good switch can improve and impact a good system.
You need to understand the type of person you are talking to.
I do NOT mean this as a negative in any way towards Sparkle, but you need to read how and what he writes.
He appears to be an "I.T." type of mind set - the kind that probably lives, eats and breaths everything Microsoft.
To them, the only factor is what the mfg of a particular part, memory, chip or capacitor gives to them. They all sound the same in that world. They think it's all about the 1's and 0's and wholeheartedly disagree with the excellent papers written by @Superdad
They only see black and white, and don't understand there is grey.
IN NO WAY is this a negative against him. I'm not saying he is wrong or right and I'm not saying you or I are right. Just that you and him will never be able to see eye-to-eye as you are like magnets where the polarity will never let them bond.
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
Mr. Greek, so very true, what works for one system may not for another. This is all so very subjective (not to say we do not hear differences) your advice in another thread https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/baby-steps-in-digital-setup.39010/ on ethernet switches reflected this and that this is process or a journey and is ever evolving as our systems and tastes evolve.
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Maslow’s hammer goes something like this: “when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.” Wikipedia describes this as a “cognitive bias that involves the over-reliance on a familiar tool.”
It has seemed to me that those who have the hardest time wrapping their head around what’s different about the networking requirements of high end audio systems are often those who work with networks professionally (IT guys). Network cables and switches are the tools they’ve relied on to do a particular job. That can lead to a cognitive bias that can keep one from understanding that slightly different tools can benefit high end audio.
A similar cognitive bias can be found amongst many electricians. Ask one about installing a dedicated circuit with larger gauge wire and the odds of you being laughed at are very high. That high end audio systems perform better when current is supplied more quickly to meet instantaneous demands is something that most have never even paused to consider. An electrician could spend their entire lives running Romex and never encounter a situation where over-specifying the wire can provide benefits that a homeowner might appreciate. Not all electricians will laugh at this though. Humility plays a huge role in how one will respond. This is true for all of us, of course.
I get quite a bit of outright hateful messages and comments fairly frequently and am constantly being accused of being a "snake oil" salesman.
I'll put aside for a moment the fact that unlike other YouTubers, I don't actually sell ANYTHING, and I literally say repeatedly in my videos to not take my word for anything and go listen for yourself.
But the most hateful and vitriolic messages are usually either from IT professionals, AV home theater employees who are just glorified IT people, and sound engineers. I mean they are literally triggered beyond comprehension. And then they post in their groups to get other similar thinkers to post against what they don't like as well. They are like a group of 11 year olds.
In my mind they are all of the same mindset and thinking ability - there is no discussion, respect of other opinions or just being tolerant. In their minds they are right and not only are you wrong, but you are evil and need to be called out for it.
I honestly had no idea there were that many people that thought and acted that way until I started doing videos. I actually had to have the police visit one of them and threaten to arrest him.
I've noticed the same thing. To an IT pro, if all the bits arrived intact, job done.
It's very obvious when bits are dropped while playing music because there will a gap in the song and/or an ugly, scratchy sound. Improved reliability is not the reason for an audiophile switch, it's all about improving the sound quality.
The funny thing is, the engineers who actually design the microscopic guts of networking chips fully understand the electrical effects at play. As it turns out, Ethernet PHY transceiver chips have an incredibly complex job to do. The more I learn about them (from my partner John Swenson, who was a senior engineer at LSI Logic>Avago>Broadcom for 31 years--and specialized in the power networks of big custom chips used by Cisco, Apple, etc. and designed several Ethernet PHYs), the more I realize it is a near miracle that Ethernet works at all. The IT guys take it for granted and assume it's all just "ones and zeros," but those don't actually exist. Its multiple levels of multiple tiny voltages, encoded in complex bi-directional ways, all embedded in a sea of noisy bursts.
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