Best turntable under 50k?

[shakti]

View attachment 101606

looks like one of the first Acoustical System turntables shipped?

Or is this a picture from a fair?

 

[Phantom-Audio]

starting to get prepped for shipping most will leave in jan

 

[Hyperion]

I'm not sure about the suggested retail price in the US, but the Helix Two MK3 should be on anyone's list for audition at or near the budget mentioned.

/ Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se

 

[Frankie67]

Thanks everyone for your help and great advice.

I’ve pulled the trigger and purchased a Bergmann Galder Signature with a My Sonic Lab Signature Platinum and it sounds fantastic!

I may add another arm and a mono cartridge in the future. Any recommendations?

 

[Hyperion]

Thanks everyone for your help and great advice.

I’ve pulled the trigger and purchased a Bergmann Galder Signature with a My Sonic Lab Signature Platinum and it sounds fantastic!

I may add another arm and a mono cartridge in the future. Any recommendations?

That’s a wonderful cartridge! MSL does make a mono cartridge as well .

/ Marcus

My Sonic Lab Eminent Solo - Nirvana Sound

The Solo is a superb mono cartridge using the same engine as the highly regarded Eminent, making it an excellent choice for those collectors of classic mono recordings.

nirvanasound.com

 

[strappoacustico]

Congratulations on your choice. Now enjoy the music!

 

[Johan K]

My advice is not to spend all your money on a single turntable for several reasons. First, you need a turntable to play back mono records with a mono cartridge. If you don’t have one, you’re missing out on the greatest musical legacy in recorded sound from 1920s-1960s, all of which sound fabulous on mono, were recorded in mono, and should be heard in mono with a mono cartridge. I’m talking legends from Bob Dylan to John Coltrane to Ella Fitzgerald to Frank Sinatra to The Beatles to Johnny Cash to Elvis Presley to….the list is endless. Thousands of the greatest popular, jazz, blues, rock and roll, folk, and classical music is originally recorded in mono and must be enjoyed that way. Stereo is a pale imitation of true mono sound on vinyl. I use a fully restored Garrard 301 with a 12” SME arm with the Miyajima Zero Infinity mono cartridge that’s a huge beast. True mono cartridges have dynamics that will make your hair stand on its end if you haven’t heard one. They are largely impervious to surface noise. They only respond to lateral groove modulations. Even old beat up stuff can sound great. In sum, if you haven’t heard vinyl on mono, you haven’t heard vinyl, period. Stereo is just not in the same class. It was always a compromise.

Second reason. Turntable technologies vary widely. There’s no one best choice. You have to hear a Technics direct drive SP-10 Mark II or Mark III to see why they leave most belt driven turntables in the dust. Even the ones costing hundreds of thousands of dollars and weighing a thousand pounds. I use a Technics SP-10 Mk 2 as a second turntable.

My third turntable is an SME 20/12 with the SME V12 arm with a Koetsu Platinum stone body cartridge. This is only for stereo records. The SME belt drive can’t match the drive and rhythm of the Garrard or the Technics. But for classical stereo records with the warm sounding Koetsu, it’s a good match. As with all belt drives, you’ll hear the belt signature. Some consider this a virtue.

My last and fourth turntable is a Technics SL-10 linear tracking turntable, a design so elegant that it’s the only turntable to be featured in the Museum of Modern Art. Timeless and ageless classic. All automatic. Takes only P-mount cartridges. I use a Shure. Sounds beautiful. Can play records upside down. Tracks grooves better than all my other tables. The linear tracking circuitry is a bit wobbly, so don’t use it on a system with low subsonic bass. But it’s a lovely machine that I’ve learned to service. Recently its internal belt snapped. Opened it up and fixed it in 10 minutes. It should last another 20 years.

Final advice. Don‘t skimp on the phono stage. I’d rather use a Technics SL-10 with my ARC Ref Phono 3SE than have to buy a cheaper phono stage to save bucks to buy a better table. Not what Linn tells you to do, but that’s been my experience over 30+ years.

Ok, I lied. One more bit of advice. Listen to old records, not audiophile stuff. The entire point of vinyl is to listen to stuff that never made it to digital. Old creaky bands, stuff recorded in the 1930s. There’s so much lovely music that will never be on Roon. That’s the stuff you should try to listen to.

Dear godofwealth,

Your article/report/advice was one of the best writings I’ve seen lately… so logical. Very nice indeed?!!

All the best

/ Jk

 

[Johan K]

That’s a wonderful cartridge! MSL does make a mono cartridge as well .

/ Marcus

My Sonic Lab Eminent Solo - Nirvana Sound

The Solo is a superb mono cartridge using the same engine as the highly regarded Eminent, making it an excellent choice for those collectors of classic mono recordings.

nirvanasound.com

View attachment 101775

Yes Hyperion,

The MSL cart’s is really something extra?

All the best

/ Jk

 

[Johan K]

Thanks and confirming that the D’Ag Momentum phono preamp does offer different EQ curves

Frankie67,

Yes Sir, it sure does…

All the best

/ Jk

 

[Johan K]

Thanks everyone for your help and great advice.

I’ve pulled the trigger and purchased a Bergmann Galder Signature with a My Sonic Lab Signature Platinum and it sounds fantastic!

I may add another arm and a mono cartridge in the future. Any recommendations?

Frankie67,

Congratulations, to your new TT and that wonderful MSL cartridge… Hope you get a joyful music year 2023.
For another tonearm, I can sugest the arms from Acoustic Signature…

TA-5000
TA-7000
TA-9000

All the best

/ Jk

 

[hogen]

Frankie67,

Congratulations, to your new TT and that wonderful MSL cartridge… Hope you get a joyful music year 2023.
For another tonearm, I can sugest the arms from Acoustic Signature…

TA-5000
TA-7000
TA-9000

All the best

/ Jk

I second that. But get the NEO version if possible.

 

[PeterA]

My third turntable is an SME 20/12 with the SME V12 arm with a Koetsu Platinum stone body cartridge. This is only for stereo records. The SME belt drive can’t match the drive and rhythm of the Garrard or the Technics. But for classical stereo records with the warm sounding Koetsu, it’s a good match. As with all belt drives, you’ll hear the belt signature. Some consider this a virtue.

godofwealth, I used to own a big SME turntable, the model 30/12. I now have an unsuspended much more massive belt drive turntable with an outboard motor.

I’m very curious why your comment about hearing the “bel signature” from your turntable as from all bell drives. Could you describe what this is?

I have done a lot of experimenting lately with a non-stretch belt, dental floss, and different types of threads between my motor pulley and massive platter. They all sound quite different. I’ve settled on thread drive but I’m now finding the tension of the thread can make quite a difference to the overall presentation.

what do you mean by “belt signature“? And can you give an example describing its affect on a specific piece of music and what you hear?

 

[godofwealth]

Belt drives impose a certain coloration that I’d describe variously as a certain looseness in tempo and rhythm or even a euphonic smoothness to the sound that can be pleasing. When you compare it to the sound of a Garrard idler drive or a Technics direct drive, I can see why some might prefer the sound of a belt drive. But to me it’s a coloration. The SME is a dark sounding table especially with my massive SMEV12 arm and a Koetsu Onyx Lace Agate. Very smooth and luxurious and perfect for classical and some west coast jazz. For music with a lot of tempo to it, like rock or popular or folk, I find the SME sounds a bit sleepy compared to my Garrard 301 or my Technics SP-10 Mk2. The latter non-belt-drives have a certain snappiness to them where notes just start and end abruptly without the smearing that comes from the belt drive. But some, perhaps the majority, might prefer the more relaxed sound of a belt drive.

 

[PeterA]

Belt drives impose a certain coloration that I’d describe variously as a certain looseness in tempo and rhythm or even a euphonic smoothness to the sound that can be pleasing. When you compare it to the sound of a Garrard idler drive or a Technics direct drive, I can see why some might prefer the sound of a belt drive. But to me it’s a coloration. The SME is a dark sounding table especially with my massive SMEV12 arm and a Koetsu Onyx Lace Agate. Very smooth and luxurious and perfect for classical and some west coast jazz. For music with a lot of tempo to it, like rock or popular or folk, I find the SME sounds a bit sleepy compared to my Garrard 301 or my Technics SP-10 Mk2. The latter non-belt-drives have a certain snappiness to them where notes just start and end abruptly without the smearing that comes from the belt drive. But some, perhaps the majority, might prefer the more relaxed sound of a belt drive.

Thank you for sharing your experience. You’re in a good position to directly compare the three different drive types, but I would generalize to such an extent. The Micro Seiki SX 8000 II I owned for a year and a half did not sound at all the way you describe your SME. My American Sound with a non-stretch belt or thread does not sound that way either. My experience is just different.

 

[Frankie67]

I second that. But get the NEO version if possible.

I might add in the future a second tonearm with a mono cartridge. Any recommendations?

 

[Johan K]

I might add in the future a second tonearm with a mono cartridge. Any recommendations?

Dear Frankie67,

I would suggest one of Miyajima’s mono cartridges if you find the sound from them attractive. They are true mono constructions, both mechanically and electrically, and give the most quiet background you could ever dream of… In my opinion, they sounds great.

All the best

/ Jk

 

[hogen]

Dear Frankie67,

I would suggest one of Miyajima’s mono cartridges if you find the sound from them attractive. They are true mono constructions, both mechanically and electrically, and give the most quiet background you could ever dream of… In my opinion, they sounds great.

All the best

/ Jk

I am very happy with my IKEDA mono. Have not tried Miyajima, but they are probably excellent also.

 

[Frankie67]

Dear Frankie67,

I would suggest one of Miyajima’s mono cartridges if you find the sound from them attractive. They are true mono constructions, both mechanically and electrically, and give the most quiet background you could ever dream of… In my opinion, they sounds great.

All the best

/ Jk

Thanks. Coupled with what tonearm?

 

[bonzo75]

Belt drives impose a certain coloration that I’d describe variously as a certain looseness in tempo and rhythm or even a euphonic smoothness to the sound that can be pleasing. When you compare it to the sound of a Garrard idler drive or a Technics direct drive, I can see why some might prefer the sound of a belt drive. But to me it’s a coloration. The SME is a dark sounding table especially with my massive SMEV12 arm and a Koetsu Onyx Lace Agate. Very smooth and luxurious and perfect for classical and some west coast jazz. For music with a lot of tempo to it, like rock or popular or folk, I find the SME sounds a bit sleepy compared to my Garrard 301 or my Technics SP-10 Mk2. The latter non-belt-drives have a certain snappiness to them where notes just start and end abruptly without the smearing that comes from the belt drive. But some, perhaps the majority, might prefer the more relaxed sound of a belt drive.

what a load of BS. You have a bad TT with a mismatched cartridge that sounds bad on its own, highly coloured cart that does not go with the arm, and crap across the forum on belt drives, and other cartridge users

My third turntable is an SME 20/12 with the SME V12 arm with a Koetsu Platinum stone body cartridge. This is only for stereo records. The SME belt drive can’t match the drive and rhythm of the Garrard or the Technics. But for classical stereo records with the warm sounding Koetsu, it’s a good match. As with all belt drives, you’ll hear the belt signature. Some consider this a virtue.

One of the worst combinations possible for classical. An Oppo would be better

 

[Johan K]

Thanks. Coupled with what tonearm?

I had the Miyajima Zero on the Acoustic Signature TA-5000 9” arm here, and it did sound amazing.

/ Jk