Daniele Cohen from Alsyvox visits Rhapsody.Audio

[LL21]

That is actually pretty nice, they can be very close to the archway corners, even touch them, the 1.2 meter minimum only applies to the front wall, not the sidewall.

BTW:
A 15” woofer has a sfa of 1134cm2
A Botticelli woofer panel 4544cm2
A Carvaggio single 5376cm2
A Carvaggio full 10752cm2 (9.5 * a 15” woofer)

So the inevitable questions from a big fan of deep house, who uses the system when the family watches a big action flick...

1. how propulsive is the Caravaggio single?
- For orchestral
- for deep house/synthesizer
- ...and for T-Rex?

2. Does the surface area of panels equate to the surface area of cones? I believe the dispersion of cones can be upwards of 2-3 inches...in the case of your panel is a significant 2cm (nearly 1 inch).

The reason that cones are often used (i believe as a non-techie) is the efficiency of their cubic volume to deliver massive punch. I remember well the Apogee Stages of old and how good a punch they had for Ray Charles...but I never got the chance to test them on deep house or movies which have electronic deep propulsive bass and compare them with cones.

I loook at the Gryphon Pendragon, the Genesis 1.2, the Martin Logan Statements...all big panels with tower subs using cones...and have to ask. Thanks for all your time in answering these questions patiently and so thoroughly!

 

[ashandger]

Just for you on Easter

Hi Bob, many, many thanks for taking the time to post my requested tracks....much appreciated. Even via Youtube I can hear so much low level detail in both the tracks. Just wonderful. I use both of these as my primary test tracks and I know them extremely well. Sound must be awesome in your room. I know you are waiting to get your new mic and that will enhance your recordings even more....current mic is missing the bass weight and detail but that is not surprising. Thanks so much again for all your efforts which are greatly appreciated. Happy Easter and happy listening.

 

[Taiko Audio]

So the inevitable questions from a big fan of deep house, who uses the system when the family watches a big action flick...

1. how propulsive is the Caravaggio single?
- For orchestral
- for deep house/synthesizer
- ...and for T-Rex?

2. Does the surface area of panels equate to the surface area of cones? I believe the dispersion of cones can be upwards of 2-3 inches...in the case of your panel is a significant 2cm (nearly 1 inch).

The reason that cones are often used (i believe as a non-techie) is the efficiency of their cubic volume to deliver massive punch. I remember well the Apogee Stages of old and how good a punch they had for Ray Charles...but I never got the chance to test them on deep house or movies which have electronic deep propulsive bass and compare them with cones.

I loook at the Gryphon Pendragon, the Genesis 1.2, the Martin Logan Statements...all big panels with tower subs using cones...and have to ask. Thanks for all your time in answering these questions patiently and so thoroughly!

Having been an orginal Apogee Full Range owner I understand and did have those same reservations. Those bass panels could only move 2-3mm and the rear side was heavily obstructed by perforated metal sheet covered by magnets. The Alsyvox ribbons use smaller and stronger neodymium magnets on both sides of the ribbon making it a push pull system with much higher sensitivity and “control”. I have not heard the Carvaggio yet but the Botticellis have considerable more slam, power and extension then the dual 11” woofers of the Focal Utopias we have here.

I guess this type of music might be frowned upon by many but here goes:

Standing in front of them taping this feels like a nice sturdy summer breeze on the beach, wind in my hair etc

 

[LL21]

Thanks for the posting!!! What is the 1st track?

Having been an orginal Apogee Full Range owner I understand and did have those same reservations. Those bass panels could only move 2-3mm and the rear side was heavily obstructed by perforated metal sheet covered by magnets. The Alsyvox ribbons use smaller and stronger neodymium magnets on both sides of the ribbon making it a push pull system with much higher sensitivity and “control”. I have not heard the Carvaggio yet but the Botticellis have considerable more slam, power and extension then the dual 11” woofers of the Focal Utopias we have here.

I guess this type of music might be frowned upon by many but here goes:

Standing in front of them taping this feels like a nice sturdy summer breeze on the beach, wind in my hair etc

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks for the posting!!! What is the 1st track?

Infected Mushroom - U R So F*ed
it’s not my music typically but very fun to play as these ribbons are very powerful through the whole frequency range. Other tracks in this genre I like to play for a combination of brutal slam and room grip / encompassment:
Deadmau5 - Imaginary Friends
Trentemoller - Chameleon

 

[LL21]

Infected Mushroom - U R So F*ed
it’s not my music typically but very fun to play as these ribbons are very powerful through the whole frequency range. Other tracks in this genre I like to play for a combination of brutal slam and room grip / encompassment:
Deadmau5 - Imaginary Friends
Trentemoller - Chameleon

Awesome...i certainly albums from each of those but only have the Chameleon track (Trentemoller - Last Resort).

 

[Zero000]

Infected Mushroom - U R So F*ed
it’s not my music typically but very fun to play as these ribbons are very powerful through the whole frequency range. Other tracks in this genre I like to play for a combination of brutal slam and room grip / encompassment:
Deadmau5 - Imaginary Friends
Trentemoller - Chameleon

The same is true on Apogees. There's no question in my mind it is the genre they render the best. So I am not surprised. I wanted to put it to the test last Munich but Daniele didn't have anything of the sort unfortunately and like a lemon I didn't bring any disks.

Trentemoller's Early Worx is a fab album to try.

Pitch Black are an excellent choice too. Rude Mechanicals, Ape to Angel, Filtered Senses, Third Light etc.

Pitch Black is top stuff. Way superior to the likes of Dead Can Dance IMHO.

Another top recommendation, though not electronic, is Dub Spencer and Trance Hill. See what you can find by them.

I don't like Infected Mushroom but I agree it sounds crazy through planar magnetics. Good ones, that is

 

[cjfrbw]

DJ Krush is good. I like Pitch Black "The Gatherer" live version a lot.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Emile, if you're up for 4 hrs of pretty intense music to test the Alsyvox's, try the Holy Triumvarate of Miles Davis mid 70s electric jazz ahead of his forced retirement.

Dark Magus, Agharta, Pangea.

Agharta first track is esp intense. He played this concert in Osaka on a broken hip, w heroin to dull the pain. It's an absolutely heroic performance.

 

[Zero000]

DJ Krush is good. I like Pitch Black "The Gatherer" live version a lot.

Pitch Black's album Invisible Circuits The track Without the Trees is outstanding played loud I think.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@LL21 I have asked Daniele Coen for clarification on alternative setup options for a multi panel system. He send me the following drawing just now. The crossovers can actually be configured for this type of placement by default, which is something I was not aware of, they can be configured to adjust for a wide array of placements. There are multiple outputs on each crossover and it's simply a matter of plugging the cables interfacing between panels to crossovers into different connectors. I personally like the 1 meter wide placement option most from a visual POV, will try that when ours arrive.

 

[LL21]

Thank you! That is SUPER-efficient use of space! Very very interesting.

Does the BACK panel behind have to be 1.2M from the front wall? Or is it ok if the FRONT panel is 1.2M from the front wall?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you! That is SUPER-efficient use of space! Very very interesting.

Does the BACK panel behind have to be 1.2M from the front wall? Or is it ok if the FRONT panel is 1.2M from the front wall?

1.2M is really the minimum clearance for both panels. So the front of each speaker panel needs to be 1.25 from the wall behind it.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Just having a quick listen.

@spiritofmusic though interesting not my cup of tea, a bit too “intense”. Do like the first piece of Maiysha

@User211 Pitch black is nice indeed, thanks for the tip!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Just having a quick listen.

@spiritofmusic though interesting not my cup of tea, a bit too “intense”. Do like the first piece of Maiysha

@User211 Pitch black is nice indeed, thanks for the tip!

Emile, if you think those Miles live albums were too much, good thing I didn't recommend
Magma "Live"
First track "Kohntarkosz".
Intense doesn't fully sum it up. Try it...if you dare!

 

[LL21]

1.2M is really the minimum clearance for both panels. So the front of each speaker panel needs to be 1.25 from the wall behind it.

Got it. Thank you. The corners are 1.5m and curved since it is a historic house. So trying to think about how to get it right without intruding into the space too much. The front of the Wilsons are 1.2M from part of front wall but not all of it, and they are only 16 inches wide.

i wonder if main panel at 1.2m from front wall with cones subs located behind the panel would be more practical space-wise...and then we have to see how well they can be dialed-in. And of course whether having a sub then creates a new 'front wall' which defeats the purpose of the 1.2m.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Got it. Thank you. The corners are 1.5m and curved since it is a historic house. So trying to think about how to get it right without intruding into the space too much. The front of the Wilsons are 1.2M from part of front wall but not all of it, and they are only 16 inches wide.

i wonder if main panel at 1.2m from front wall with cones subs located behind the panel would be more practical space-wise...and then we have to see how well they can be dialed-in. And of course whether having a sub then creates a new 'front wall' which defeats the purpose of the 1.2m.

IMHO those cone subs are most likely only going to muddy the bass and not add anything. I have owned a pair of Rel Gibraltar G1 and Velodyne DD15+ subs and those could not keep up with the Focal Utopias, the delta to the Botticellis is even larger in my room (5.65*11.8). I have actually even briefly owned a pair of Wilson XS subwoofers but decided against installing them in my room so cannot make a direct comparison. @Rhapsody has 2 Rel 212SE (I think) subs in his space, maybe he'd be willing to hook them up and see what they will add to his Botticellis.

BTW Daniele's wife is an interior designer, you could send a drawing of your room to info@alsyvox.com and they will give you free advice on placement with interior aesthetics in mind.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, if you think those Miles live albums were too much, good thing I didn't recommend
Magma "Live"
First track "Kohntarkosz".
Intense doesn't fully sum it up. Try it...if you dare!

Nope not for me, I can see you listening to that after a few drinks rocking away though

 

[Rhapsody]

New Alsyvox installation

IMHO those cone subs are most likely only going to muddy the bass and not add anything. I have owned a pair of Rel Gibraltar G1 and Velodyne DD15+ subs and those could not keep up with the Focal Utopias, the delta to the Botticellis is even larger in my room (5.65*11.8). I have actually even briefly owned a pair of Wilson XS subwoofers but decided against installing them in my room so cannot make a direct comparison. @Rhapsody has 2 Rel 212SE (I think) subs in his space, maybe he'd be willing to hook them up and see what they will add to his Botticellis.

BTW Daniele's wife is an interior designer, you could send a drawing of your room to info@alsyvox.com and they will give you free advice on placement with interior aesthetics in mind.

I have tried the 212SE's with the Tintoretto. Did not like it at all. The bass has so much slam especially once you get to the Botticellis and the speed and articulation of the bass on the Botticelis and larger Caravaggio and Michelangelo is mesmerizing, the subs cloud the beauty imho.

I did not do measurements and try to dial in the subs with the Alsyvox speakers. I would not waste my time as I would never use them. The Botticellis go way down close to 20Hz.

If you were able to get 15Hz to 20Hz out of the subs, which I have doubts about anyway, imho getting that extra extension would ruin the beauty of the 20Hz bass that is delivered by the Alsyvox. AND I'm talking Botticellis not Caravaggio or Michelangelo.

YMMV as always.

 

[LL21]

IMHO those cone subs are most likely only going to muddy the bass and not add anything. I have owned a pair of Rel Gibraltar G1 and Velodyne DD15+ subs and those could not keep up with the Focal Utopias, the delta to the Botticellis is even larger in my room (5.65*11.8). I have actually even briefly owned a pair of Wilson XS subwoofers but decided against installing them in my room so cannot make a direct comparison. @Rhapsody has 2 Rel 212SE (I think) subs in his space, maybe he'd be willing to hook them up and see what they will add to his Botticellis.

BTW Daniele's wife is an interior designer, you could send a drawing of your room to info@alsyvox.com and they will give you free advice on placement with interior aesthetics in mind.

Hi Taiko,

Thank you. I might take them up on that suggestion regarding design...there is pretty only a few inches before the big Wilsons intrude...the panels are much wider, but might be 'acceptable' given they are far thinner.

As for cone subs and discontinuity...here is how i look at it. ALL set ups involve some level of compromise in some areas, particularly where you are looking for optimal performance elsewhere...its a balance.

For me, i would take the enveloping sense of scale that comes with a powerful sub...along WITH any discontinuity...over seamlessness but without that bass. And that includes the big Wilsons, Grande Utopias, and even the mighty Arrakis.

Having subterranean information (our sub is literally cut off sharply above 40hz) gives that extra sense of space and completeness...and when its off, more than half the spacial envelope disappears along with that satisfying teeny "pressure puff-to-the-chest" when you've got a kick drum at low volume late in the evening...its irreplaceable for me.