darTZeel out of business?

[Stereophonic]

TO ALL MUSIC LOVERS

First of all, and I apologize for this, this post will not be as brief as I would have liked.

After this buzz, which has grown beyond my imagination - at least mine - I believe it’s time to put things into perspective.

Yes, darTZeel is undergoing a paradigm shift.
Yes, business is tough right now, but I am one of the few manufacturers who openly admits it, which may have led to some false rumors.

No, the darTZeel brand is not "out of business." We continue to serve our existing customers regarding after-sales service and updates.
We have launched our new homepage, which will evolve frequently in the near future, and on which our customers are invited to click on the Power Nose to enter their details.
Soon, any audiophile will also be able to register there to receive official information.
This will allow us to keep them exclusively informed about the new developments that will soon be implemented.

The production of the NHB, CTH, and LHC ranges is currently on hold, but we are not stopping it altogether. As I’ve said before, I find that people are tempted to read between the lines rather than focus on the whole message.
I will not comment on what has been claimed through this forum, which in my humble opinion should remain focused on what is dearest to music lovers: music itself.

A lot of ink has already been spilled in recent days about darTZeel, and two distinct camps seem to be forming.
However, as this debate progresses, I notice that the community is starting to realize the attack I am facing. This is a severe blow for me and my company.
For this reason, I will not go further into explanations that could be misinterpreted or distorted by the instigators of this attack.

I would like to clarify the following points, in case it’s not yet clear to everyone:
The happy owners of darTZeel instruments know me well, as I have been in direct communication with them since the beginning, in 2002.
They are part of the darTZeel family, they trust me, they know that the darTZeel brand will continue to exist for a long time. Thank you to them!
As of today, at the moment I am writing these lines, due to their increasing rarity, darTZeel instruments are gaining value.

Those who do not own darTZeel instruments can easily afford to make negative comments, whether about the prices, the sound quality, or my ability to offer something different in terms of musical reproduction, because they have never listened to them, seen them, or touched them long enough to understand. In my turn, I can understand that.
Please do not think that my words are pretentious or condescending, as this is not the case.
This is indeed true for any other brand on the market, as each one deserves attention, and if audiophiles buy them, it’s because they are worth it.
Criticizing without knowledge, slandering without proof, spreading false rumors, scheming to distort reality - these are the weapons used by cowards to achieve their goals.
Anyone reading these lines can contact me directly at rehve@dartzeel.com, and I will personally respond, with no bot replying on my behalf.

A small clarification for those who don’t know…
Here in Geneva, the official language is not German but French.

If what has been posted here is not clear enough, I’m sorry, but I will not say more.
Log in regularly to our website and follow the progression that our paradigm shift will bring.

Let the music play!
Hervé Delétraz

I’m sorry Hervé.
I respect you and your brand as a proud first spanish owner of CTH-8550 but, with this answer, i’m really worried about you and Dartzeel.

 

[Tbzc]

The problem with this saga is that there will be no winner. We, the high end audio community, will either “lose” a well-respected journalist (at least in my opinion) or a very good high-end company. Or both. I have been in business long enough to be quite certain that additional information will surface in the coming months that will prove who is right. Time will tell, but the damage is already done.

 

[wisnon]

You keep saying it is fine. The website is not working fine. Any potential buyer of their amps cannot find the info in their website. How can it be fine?

Reading is fundamental. I said WILL be fine.. The oestrogen level is off the charts here.

 

[Audiohertz2]

The problem with this saga is that there will be no winner. We, the high end audio community, will either “lose” a well-respected journalist (at least in my opinion) or a very good high-end company. Or both. I have been in business long enough to be quite certain that additional information will surface in the coming months that will prove who is right. Time will tell, but the damage is already done.

All soon forgotten , look how Tascam was quickly forgiven ..

 

[Porsche]

good Lord, Dartzeel owes you nothing, he hasn't screwed anyone over that I am aware of, he hasn't made or broken promises that effect anyone on this post/topic that im aware of, he has clearly said he's looking at other ventures in the audio world and will support all existing customers etc, until he breaks that promise leave it be, alot of you are acting like you have a dog in this hunt an you dont, you just like drama.

the only person that is in the wrong here is this Gregory fella, if he reps/distributes another brand and than makes claims like this towards Dartzeel without crossing all his Ts and dotting all his I'd than that as unprofessional and unethical as it can be, instead of questing Dartzeel you guys should boycott CH Precision because of this clown IMO

proof is in the pudding, this Gregory cat has ZERO

 

[Dierkx1]

good Lord, Dartzeel owes you nothing, he hasn't screwed anyone over that I am aware of, he hasn't made or broken promises that effect anyone on this post/topic that im aware of, he has clearly said he's looking at other ventures in the audio world and will support all existing customers etc, until he breaks that promise leave it be, alot of you are acting like you have a dog in this hunt an you dont, you just like drama.

the only person that is in the wrong here is this Gregory fella, if he reps/distributes another brand and than makes claims like this towards Dartzeel without crossing all his Ts and dotting all his I'd than that as unprofessional and unethical as it can be, instead of questing Dartzeel you guys should boycott CH Precision because of this clown IMO

proof is in the pudding, this Gregory cat has ZERO

Thank you. The only comment I'd amend is re: boycotting CH Precision. We have no knowledge of CH instigating, approving, or supporting what their consultants or contractors say. In fact, the person who initiated this flurry of activity represented himself as a journalist (I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this topic).

My limited experience with the Swiss audio community is that they are more collegial than adversarial.

 

[ssfas]

The problem with this saga is that there will be no winner. We, the high end audio community, will either “lose” a well-respected journalist (at least in my opinion) or a very good high-end company. Or both. I have been in business long enough to be quite certain that additional information will surface in the coming months that will prove who is right. Time will tell, but the damage is already done.

Sadly that may be the case. I've been giving professional opinions for over 30 years. Millions of professionals do. If we get it wrong, we get into trouble and can lose our livelihood. If there is no substance behind what Mr Gregory said, I have no sympathy for him. I hope for his sake he has evidence.

I still hold to the basic principles of supply and demand (I was an Economics graduate a long time ago) and unless there's been a paradigm shift in economic theory since I graduated, I suspect those rules still govern the high-end audio market.

 

[Porsche]

Thank you. The only comment I'd amend is re: boycotting CH Precision. We have no knowledge of CH instigating, approving, or supporting what their consultants or contractors say. In fact, the person who initiated this flurry of activity represented himself as a journalist (I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this topic).

My limited experience with the Swiss audio community is that they are more collegial than adversarial.

I thought somewhere in this thread it was said that he is a rep/distributor, if he is than I stand behind boycotting because CH should be all over this more so than Dartzeel having to defend themselves, however, if Gregory is just a reviewer that uses CH than yes I agree, you cannot hold CH responsible

like I said earlier in the post, revierwers/journalist are a joke and they are never held responsible for there actions, throw it on the wall and see if it sticks

 

[adyc]

Thank you. The only comment I'd amend is re: boycotting CH Precision. We have no knowledge of CH instigating, approving, or supporting what their consultants or contractors say. In fact, the person who initiated this flurry of activity represented himself as a journalist (I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this topic).

My limited experience with the Swiss audio community is that they are more collegial than adversarial.

You must be joking. CH or other brands don’t give a hoot whether Dartzeel exists or not. Roy did a great service by raising awareness to any potential customer of Dartzeel. This day, many customers have paid full price with no delivery or very long delay. There are a few threads in here of similar experience like tonearm or room acoustics products.

 

[ssfas]

instead of questing Dartzeel you guys should boycott CH Precision because of this clown IMO

That's the worst of cancel culture.

RG may have said something untrue and damaging. He's an audio hack. If the CEO of a competitor had made such a statement, you might feel disinclined to do business with that brand. There is so much shared technology and cross-collaboration in the hifi world it is not surprising that it seems a very cordial industry. The trouble-makers seem to be the customers wanting discounts.

 

[wisnon]

Thank you. The only comment I'd amend is re: boycotting CH Precision. We have no knowledge of CH instigating, approving, or supporting what their consultants or contractors say. In fact, the person who initiated this flurry of activity represented himself as a journalist (I'll keep my thoughts to myself on this topic).

My limited experience with the Swiss audio community is that they are more collegial than adversarial.

CH Precision would never do that as you say. Herve and Florian are friends and go way back.

 

[ssfas]

You must be joking. CH or other brands don’t give a hoot whether Dartzeel exists or not. Roy did a great service by raising awareness to any potential customer of Dartzeel. This day, many customers have paid full price with no delivery or very long delay. There are a few threads in here of similar experience like tonearm or room acoustics products.

... and, in my case, wedding dresses!

 

[Porsche]

That's the worst of cancel culture.

RG may have said something untrue and damaging. He's an audio hack. If the CEO of a competitor had made such a statement, you might feel disinclined to do business with that brand. There is so much shared technology and cross-collaboration in the hifi world it is not surprising that it seems a very cordial industry. The trouble-makers seem to be the customers wanting discounts.

if Gregory reps/distributes than CH should be all over this, but like I said earlier, if not than I retract the boycott statement, I thought I read in this post he was, I could very well be wrong

 

[adyc]

... and, in my case, wedding dresses!

I was also a victim of the scum Paul Hynes. I fully paid for his LPS six years ago and still waiting for him to deliver. The excuses he gave were hilarious. Worse, he still continues to sell his LPS in different forums.

 

[Dierkx1]

I thought somewhere in this thread it was said that he is a rep/distributor, if he is than I stand behind boycotting because CH should be all over this more so than Dartzeel having to defend themselves, however, if Gregory is just a reviewer that uses CH than yes I agree, you cannot hold CH responsible

like I said earlier in the post, revierwers/journalist are a joke and they are never held responsible for there actions, throw it on the wall and see if it sticks

... and, in my case, wedding dresses!

Are you referring to paying for two dresses?

 

[DasguteOhr]

CH Precision would never do that as you say. Herve and Florian are friends and go way back.

If you are in the same HiFi sector and the companies are so close together, you are almost bound to run into each other. A friendship is probably not out of the question.

 

[KevinO]

At the risk of being accused of not being a regular enough poster here to have any right to comment, is it not remotely possible that RG may in fact be correct? In which case, as a self proclaimed "journalist", perhaps he felt it was his responsibility to inform his readership. Dartzeel and RG can't both be right. Presumably there will be documents which will support one or other. I'm not entirely sure why some here seem to think they have the right to see those documents. I get the need for existing owners to feel supported . And prospective owners need to feel as if they're not inconsiderable investment will to some extent be supported as well. But owning a product doesn't ( IMO) give you the right to know all the ins and outs of the company's business. IMO, this has now come down to the credibility of a journalist vs that of an audio company. All will be revealed in time - these things usually are. ARC , Shindo...

 

[ssfas]

Are you referring to paying for two dresses?

Yes. My mother-in-law paid up front to a trusted designer she'd known for decades, who disappeared with her cash.
I seem to recall I paid for the next one.

One of the lessons in there, and I won't say anything unpleasant about my wonderful mother-in-law, is to keep friendship and business apart. I don't have any friends through business or through being an audio consumer. Business and being a consumer are transactional relationships and I don't see that as the basis of a good friendship. I have a transactional relationship with a few members of my family and it's not healthy or rewarding.

 

[audioguy3107]

I’m just honestly enjoying the back and forth…..then I read this…..”As of today, at the moment I am writing these lines, due to their increasing rarity, darTZeel instruments are gaining value.”

I mean…..really? Come on.

 

[Kingrex]

I thought by the way some were posting after Roys bomb, they had seen there was some sort of legal proceding relating to a bankruptcy, but could not see the details. Has anyone seen any sort of evidence.

If not, maybe Herve is correct to say get off his Xss. If there is no proceedings, I hope Roy is sued for slander. If I were Herve's lawyers, just for good measure I would drag in Whatsbestforum and any other places where Roy has been published or posted. Cast a wide net and stop illegal slander from festering. Nothing like people having their wallets tapped to learn a lesson.

What is the legal ramifications for Whatsbest to allow unsubstantiated slander to remain posted that is damaging the reputation and revenue stream of a private business. Are they at jeopardy. Even if they are not, how ethical is it to allow possible slander to be posted on their site with no ramifications. Even the owners of the site are posting in and letting the event go on. For what. Eyes and profits for whatbest at the detriment of Dartzeel. Is Whatsbest complicit in the potential ruin of a business?