darTZeel out of business?

[ssfas]

At the risk of being accused of not being a regular enough poster here to have any right to comment, is it not remotely possible that RG may in fact be correct? In which case, as a self proclaimed "journalist", perhaps he felt it was his responsibility to inform his readership. Dartzeel and RG can't both be right. Presumably there will be documents which will support one or other. I'm not entirely sure why some here seem to think they have the right to see those documents. I get the need for existing owners to feel supported . And prospective owners need to feel as if they're not inconsiderable investment will to some extent be supported as well. But owning a product doesn't ( IMO) give you the right to know all the ins and outs of the company's business. IMO, this has now come down to the credibility of a journalist vs that of an audio company. All will be revealed in time - these things usually are. ARC , Shindo...

No responsibility, but if he gets sued he might have protection from a public interest defence. I couldn't see that working in the UK, where he lives. Not an opinion on law. He's an audio journo, not Joan of Arc. She had a successful career until she lost her magic touch and got accused of blasphemy, which I assume is the religious version of defamation. In her case the primary crime was apparently wearing men's clothes, which seems a pretty low bar. Anyway, she met a fiery end, these days you just get cancelled.

p.s. It occurred to me that these days men get cancelled for wearing dresses, unless you're Grayson Perry, in which case you get a knighthood. (Big Sir G.P. fan here!)

 

[Lee]

Honestly I don’t know if Roy is right or wrong here.

Is there any evidence that Dartzeel is in liquidation? Is it possible that as Herve said that they have agreed to installments for paying back the Swiss government? Many audio manufacturers do builds in batches. Isn’t that a good way to tie building product to orders?

 

[thedudeabides]

After 12 pages of discussion, there’s still no clear answer on whether darTZell is out of business or not.

Made an exception and decided, in this case, to "join the party". Just watched Part Two on Jay's Audo Lab regarding this issue. Jay specifically asked Herve (via email) to come on his utube channel to explain the situation. He declined. Personally speaking "Whats Best", regardless of the topic at hand, is honesty and integrity. I could care less about high end audio anymore. Way too much drama, egos, and obscene pricing. Nonetheless, Herve's refusal to speak with Jay on camera (and be transparent and honest with his clients, not to mention the "audio" public at large) should give everyone pause regardless of how this drama ends.

PS: Just read the manufacturers response. Post 241. No need to revise the above.

 

[adyc]

Honestly I don’t know if Roy is right or wrong here.

Is there any evidence that Dartzeel is in liquidation? Is it possible that as Herve said that they have agreed to installments for paying back the Swiss government? Many audio manufacturers do builds in batches. Isn’t that a good way to tie building product to orders?

I believe they both are right. I suspect Dartzeel was in troubles few months ago and facing bankruptcy. There maybe a white knight coming to the rescue paying off the debt and the new shareholder may want to go for new direction. So Herve says the company is free of liability now.

 

[Thundersnow]

In his statement Roy Gregory claims the following: "It is the result of a legal process in the Swiss courts, the outcome of which is widely known, certainly throughout the European high-end."

I find it odd then that the Swiss Official Gazette of Commerce (https://www.shab.ch) has no mention of this process in relation to Dartzeel, in any of the Swiss cantons (darTZeel Audio SA is the registered name of the company). The last entry is from November last year with regards to Delétraz Alexandre not being the company director anymore.

This is publicly accessible information, the most recent updates from the Swiss Official Gazette of Commerce are from yesterday, so it's not like this publicly available information is not up to date.

This makes me seriously question Roy Gregory's statement unless some hard facts are offered to counter the above.

 

[JackD201]

CH Precision would never do that as you say. Herve and Florian are friends and go way back.

Exactly. I met Herve through Florian many years back ( I was with Steve, nephilim, Philip and Gary Kho) in Hong Kong. When I visited CH 2 Octobers ago I had actually just missed Herve by an hour or so.

My question is, has Roy Gregory come up with any statements since?

 

[JackD201]

Oh and since Herve has already chimed in personally, excuse me if I take his word on all of this.

 

[Amir]

TO ALL MUSIC LOVERS

First of all, and I apologize for this, this post will not be as brief as I would have liked.

After this buzz, which has grown beyond my imagination - at least mine - I believe it’s time to put things into perspective.

Yes, darTZeel is undergoing a paradigm shift.
Yes, business is tough right now, but I am one of the few manufacturers who openly admits it, which may have led to some false rumors.

No, the darTZeel brand is not "out of business." We continue to serve our existing customers regarding after-sales service and updates.
We have launched our new homepage, which will evolve frequently in the near future, and on which our customers are invited to click on the Power Nose to enter their details.
Soon, any audiophile will also be able to register there to receive official information.
This will allow us to keep them exclusively informed about the new developments that will soon be implemented.

The production of the NHB, CTH, and LHC ranges is currently on hold, but we are not stopping it altogether. As I’ve said before, I find that people are tempted to read between the lines rather than focus on the whole message.
I will not comment on what has been claimed through this forum, which in my humble opinion should remain focused on what is dearest to music lovers: music itself.

A lot of ink has already been spilled in recent days about darTZeel, and two distinct camps seem to be forming.
However, as this debate progresses, I notice that the community is starting to realize the attack I am facing. This is a severe blow for me and my company.
For this reason, I will not go further into explanations that could be misinterpreted or distorted by the instigators of this attack.

I would like to clarify the following points, in case it’s not yet clear to everyone:
The happy owners of darTZeel instruments know me well, as I have been in direct communication with them since the beginning, in 2002.
They are part of the darTZeel family, they trust me, they know that the darTZeel brand will continue to exist for a long time. Thank you to them!
As of today, at the moment I am writing these lines, due to their increasing rarity, darTZeel instruments are gaining value.

Those who do not own darTZeel instruments can easily afford to make negative comments, whether about the prices, the sound quality, or my ability to offer something different in terms of musical reproduction, because they have never listened to them, seen them, or touched them long enough to understand. In my turn, I can understand that.
Please do not think that my words are pretentious or condescending, as this is not the case.
This is indeed true for any other brand on the market, as each one deserves attention, and if audiophiles buy them, it’s because they are worth it.
Criticizing without knowledge, slandering without proof, spreading false rumors, scheming to distort reality - these are the weapons used by cowards to achieve their goals.
Anyone reading these lines can contact me directly at rehve@dartzeel.com, and I will personally respond, with no bot replying on my behalf.

A small clarification for those who don’t know…
Here in Geneva, the official language is not German but French.

If what has been posted here is not clear enough, I’m sorry, but I will not say more.
Log in regularly to our website and follow the progression that our paradigm shift will bring.

Let the music play!
Hervé Delétraz

Herve, Thank you very much for information.

 

[Tonari]

That's the worst of cancel culture.

RG may have said something untrue and damaging. He's an audio hack. If the CEO of a competitor had made such a statement, you might feel disinclined to do business with that brand. There is so much shared technology and cross-collaboration in the hifi world it is not surprising that it seems a very cordial industry. The trouble-makers seem to be the customers wanting discounts.

Discounts are already at your hands. See AudioMarkt, filter by CH.

 

[ssfas]

Discounts are already at your hands. See AudioMarkt, filter by CH.

There seems to be nothing untoward about the private listings of various CH precision units, the prices seem to be “business as usual“. What was very surprising was to see three or four recent listings forDartzeel ex-demo units by dealers in France and Belgium at around half price. I’ve never seen that before.

 

[germinal]

As of today, at the moment I am writing these lines, due to their increasing rarity, darTZeel instruments are gaining value.


Please do not think that my words are pretentious or condescending, as this is not the case.
This is indeed true for any other brand on the market, as each one deserves attention, and if audiophiles buy them, it’s because they are worth it.


Let the music play!
Hervé Delétraz

Dear Mr. Hervé Delétraz :


I don't wish anything bad for Dartzeel, even on the contrary, but you are saying some very weird stuff.

Facts : - Dartzeel is financially in a bad place.
- website had been changed to a contact form.
- currently no production

Hervé states : - dartzeel equipment is gaining value
- if audiophiles buy them, it’s because they are worth it
- don't sell your gear on audiogon ( very strange to make this statement if you believe your own words )


My deduction : - apparently nobody is buying dartzeel, hence the dire financial situation. So they are not worth those insane prices.


As a company you can't seriously be selling or more likely trying to sell 200k+ amps and then - after someone writes an article about the dire financial situation your company is in - tell the public: "we don't like the the high prices anymore, we are gonna do something different" When in fact a few months earlier you even launched special editions.

hifi components are NOT Rolex watches and it's not because your office is next to Rolex that there is any other relation/correlation between both products. When you leave the shop with a hifi component you 've already made a huge loss, just like a car really. So, it's very dishonest to come here and say the value will increase.

There seems to be nothing untoward about the private listings of various CH precision units, the prices seem to be “business as usual“. What was very surprising was to see three or four recent listings forDartzeel ex-demo units by dealers in France and Belgium at around half price. I’ve never seen that before.

From Brussels : http://pinknoise.be/bonnes-affaires/ ( previously wrong link )

50% off

the message from Herve must not have reached his own dealers.

 

[darTZeel]

Dear Mr. Hervé Delétraz :


I don't wish anything bad for Dartzeel, even on the contrary, but you are saying some very weird stuff.

Facts : - Dartzeel is financially in a bad place.
- website had been changed to a contact form.
- currently no production

Hervé states : - dartzeel equipment is gaining value
- if audiophiles buy them, it’s because they are worth it
- don't sell your gear on audiogon ( very strange to make this statement if you believe your own words )


My deduction : - apparently nobody is buying dartzeel, hence the dire financial situation. So they are not worth those insane prices.


As a company you can't seriously be selling or more likely trying to sell 200k+ amps and then - after someone writes an article about the dire financial situation your company is in - tell the public: "we don't like the the high prices anymore, we are gonna do something different" When in fact a few months earlier you even launched special editions.

hifi components are NOT Rolex watches and it's not because your office is next to Rolex that there is any other relation/correlation between both products. When you leave the shop with a hifi component you 've already made a huge loss, just like a car really. So, it's very dishonest to come here and say the value will increase.


From Brussels : http://pinknoise.be/dartzeel-lhc-208-mkii/

50% off

the message from Herve must not have reached his own dealers.

The price is indeed the right one! No 50% off at all. This is a LHC-208 MkII, at € 27k, and this is the right price.
Will you stop all this, at the end?
You are not firing on the right target.

 

[Tonari]

The FB statement also mentions “where the highest discount has become the main objective”. Indeed, why some high end brands (not targeting DZ) put a stratospheric price on the label only to offer a huge discount?

 

[Holmz]

Is this the same company which tries to sell 1 million dollar cartridge with no track record of cartridge?

Track record… chuckle…

 

[germinal]

The price is indeed the right one! No 50% off at all. This is a LHC-208 MkII, at € 27k, and this is the right price.
Will you stop all this, at the end?
You are not firing on the right target.

Actuallly that’s wrong.. look under bonnes-affaires on your dealers website.

Alas, that was not the gist of my post.

Good luck.

 

[darTZeel]

Actuallly that’s wrong.. look under bonnes-affaires on your dealers website.

Alas, that was not the gist of my post.

Good luck.

Got it. Thank you. This a 2-year old unit. Good opportunity to buy darTZeel at a bargain!

 

[Zeotrope]

Dartzeel price increases have been absurd. $125k now for a basic 18NS/108 combo. Tough sell in the US. Sound is great though.

That is an inflated US price - ask yourself why it’s nowhere near that price in the RoW! The fact that the US distributor was price gouging - way above what it would be if converted from Swiss Francs to USD - is part of the problem here, perhaps the main reason why DartZeel is in trouble — for exactly the reason KeithR mentioned above: $125k USD is crazy high for the 18NS/108 combo. Not when other dealers have the combo listed (before discounts!) at ~$80-80k USD.

 

[Zeotrope]

@RoyGregory just F—CKED all current and future owners of DarTZeel and did irreparable damage to the Company.
I am looking forward to the legal action that should follow and would love to help. If there are any lawyers here with knowledge on how to initiate, I would be happy to assist in any way (send me a PM).

For those who are unaware: making false disparaging comments in public that harm a company (or person), is illegal. It should not be difficult for DarTZeel and for owners (i.e., by looking at resale price declines) to prove damages.

 

[Zeotrope]

I have great respect for Dartzeel and Hervé. He produces excellent-sounding equipment, and his customer service is truly second to none. However, I can’t help but feel a bit uneasy after reading this. Blaming extreme high prices as something he doesn’t want to be associated with feels disingenuous. Wasn’t Dartzeel one of the companies with the steepest price increases over the years? Take the NHB 108, for example—it started at around $15k and now costs around $70k. The anniversary preamp and stereo amp combo is priced at $250k. Dartzeel played the game of extreme pricing and luxury, and it seems they got burned. That’s what I believe happened. Don’t blame others!

It costs $70k in the US, under $50k in most other countries. This is the greed of the US dealer/distributor. But DarTzeel let that happen - it was his call to put an end to price gauging. I am a huge fan of Hervé and a customer; but this issue needed to be addressed.

And it is not unique to DarTZeel’s US distribution! If you are in the market for high-end components in the US, check pricing in other countries - it should be very close. And BTW, there are 0% US duties on imported audio components.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Whats a few bucks here or there between well heeled Audiophiles ...