Dartzeel vs. Ayre

I've decided to home audition the Viola Bravo II amp and the Krell 600e monoblocks. I should have both next month. I may start a new thread if folks are interested.
 
I've decided to home audition the Viola Bravo II amp and the Krell 600e monoblocks. I should have both next month. I may start a new thread if folks are interested.

I am
 
Did we ever dispel the myth that Class A amps have a higher noise floor than Class A/B amps or any other class of amps for that matter?
 
Maybe I shouldn't have picked on Class A amps. :D

I would say that I am not a fan of amps in general that don't have at least a low enough noise floor to fully resolve a 24bit digital file. For example, if you look at JA's test on the Pass xa30.5, the A-weighted (best case) noise measurement was like -87db. OTOH, if you look at the Soulution, the noise comes in at -96.8db down. Assuming all other things equal, the greater the bit depth of the recording, the greater the dynamic range and lower the noise floor of the recording. If the amp doesn't have a low enough noise floor, then those extra bits in a 24 bit file are basically not heard.


class-a amps have reduced or elimitnated notch distortion over ab, something that can be measured but not easy to hear. in practice -87 vs -96 isnt going to mean squat even with hirez sources, thats what the volume control is for ;) you dont listen to music at 5, 10 or 50 db at 80-100 db listening levels its totally inperceptable. the best you'll see with LP is -60 to 70db down (and someone will dispute that) yet its compared to hirez digital all the time and comes out on top in many cases (in all cases if you're an analog stalwart :p).
 
Not sure about the possible additional noise floor of class-A amps (it could be true), but the best amps I have had or heard are preciesly designed on that topology.
 
Not sure about the possible additional noise floor of class-A amps (it could be true), but the best amps I have had or heard are preciesly designed on that topology.

me neither and me too
 
Not sure about the possible additional noise floor of class-A amps (it could be true), but the best amps I have had or heard are preciesly designed on that topology.

me neither and me too

Ditto...my favorite amps of the last 20 years are: Forte 4, Krell FPB 600, Gryphon Antileon, Boulder 2060, Gryphon Colosseum.
 
i'm no techie so just took this from websites. Boulder 2060 S/N Unweighted: 135db.

That is insanely low noise measurement, personally I would want to see that verified by a third party. Isn't that greater than 32 bit resolution? Also the Boulder amp does not have that much heatsinking for a stereo amp that is running 600 watts pure class A...

Alright I found this quote from a Positive Feedback review:

Operation is pure Class A, though with dynamic load-sensing, thus allowing a flexible response to a variety of signals and requirements. This means that the 2060 doesn't have to be slurping maximum power at all moments to be ready to provide a Class A envelope for playback—a very good thing.

Does this mean it is sliding bias like some Krell amps? I'm not sure it's fair to call it a "pure class A" amp if that is so. Though Boulder themselves do not use that term in their literature.
 
Maybe I shouldn't have picked on Class A amps. :D

I would say that I am not a fan of amps in general that don't have at least a low enough noise floor to fully resolve a 24bit digital file. For example, if you look at JA's test on the Pass xa30.5, the A-weighted (best case) noise measurement was like -87db. OTOH, if you look at the Soulution, the noise comes in at -96.8db down. Assuming all other things equal, the greater the bit depth of the recording, the greater the dynamic range and lower the noise floor of the recording. If the amp doesn't have a low enough noise floor, then those extra bits in a 24 bit file are basically not heard.

Thanks for clarifiying your position , for some reason I never saw your response when I had originally replied. Are you able to hear the difference with the lower noise floor between amplifiers when playing 24bit ..?

Does this mean no Tubes on 24bit material ..... :)
 
That is insanely low noise measurement, personally I would want to see that verified by a third party. Isn't that greater than 32 bit resolution? Also the Boulder amp does not have that much heatsinking for a stereo amp that is running 600 watts pure class A...

Alright I found this quote from a Positive Feedback review:



Does this mean it is sliding bias like some Krell amps? I'm not sure it's fair to call it a "pure class A" amp if that is so. Though Boulder themselves do not use that term in their literature.

Hmmm , plateau Bias .....:)
 
The Soulution 710 is a keeper. There's nothing I have heard that is like it. The Soulution really controls the YG without making things sound articial like a class D. It is pretty close to perfect. Strangely enough I have to thank Jonathan Tinn and many others that counseled me in he right direction. Thank you!
 
How did the ASR Emitter 2 handle the YG speakers?
I liked the ASR very much. I had an issue with my unit that was driving me crazy so I gave it back to the dealer. When it worked, it was very good. The sound is a little more on the tube side of neutral. The Soulution is much better.
 
On my speaker, the Mx-r was very disappointing. I don't know why. All I can say is that the bass disappeared and tipped the tonal balance toward the treble. I couldn't listen to it longer than a day and sent it back. They are very beautiful though.

I used to have Dartzeel. Dartzeel is a great amp but not suited for all speakers. When I had YG Carmels, the CTH-8550 was the perfect mate. But when I got the Anat III, the Dartzeel had to go. I still miss it sometimes, but it lost its dynamics with the Anat III.

Hi don't want to argue what you heard, I am sure you did....but those MXR's take a few days to warm up and if the amps had less than 5-800 hours on them, I'd say the same thing....you may not have heard them at their best. Also if you plugged em into a power conditioner (they don't like my Shunyata which is great everywhere else..)
 
Dallas justice , great comparison good luck with the purchase , unfortunately no boulder try out yet , i am curious what you think , i had krell evo 400s before , and the boulder 1060 is a step better , kinda like going from hifi to music , also extremely powerfull , the boulder sounds more in control/effortless although its " only" 300 watts.
More neutral and more music , i never heard the darts unfortunately.
Its class AB and its audiojewelry
SN ratio - 127 db, and it sounds like it too, a lot of detail comes through
 
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comparing amplifiers is not easy without considering loudspeaker and room.
the matching of speaker and amplifier is a big factor.

both Ayre designer (Charles Hansen) and Dartzeel designer are well regarded.

the list of my favorite solid-state amplifiers:
Vitus Audio MP-M201
CH Precision M10
TAD M700
Symphonic Line 400
Dartzeel 108
Ayre MX-R Twenty
Lamm M1.2
Robert Koda K160
Neodio A2
ASR Emitter II
Yamaha B2
Sugden A21
Firstwatt SIT

and maybe Spectral Audio DMA-400
 
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Personally Ayre build quality is VERY impressive and by far not "flimsy" as one member posted above. That was funny :)
Actually, not so funny, but definitely a cheap shot. Charlie Hansen (RIP) was the genius behind Ayre, and currently, Jake, now the captain at Ayre, together with Aerial (the new tech genius), are working hard to recapture the industry hype that Ayre once deserved and commanded from the audio community. However, the high-end audio biz is brutal especially when those with little real knowledge about a product attempt to critique it. A while back the original Ayre MXR was compared quite favorably with the highly esteemed Lamm M1.2 Class A mono block amp. Now personally, I'd be careful with which speakers I'd drive with the MXRs. Paired up with bright speakers, well the MXRs are fast, tight and detailed, and thus, these sonic characteristics could be a bit much of a good thing.
 
I'm interested in the used Ayre amp. I like t call the manufacturer and share the serial number to get the history of a product before I buy it. So far, no one answers the phone at Ayre and they don't return emails either. I guess it's possible they take the month of december off. I thought I read elsewhere they had good customer service?????? Who knows.
 

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