David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System

Kingrex

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Feb 3, 2019
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You should have upgraded the compression driver. It is an ok one for the money but there are significantly better one from Beyma (where they got the one in the PAP). Do you know if the coax is Beyma? They are pretty good coax drivers.
PAP tried other drivers. They found them to catch your attention out of the gate. But over time they were to analytical and made you turn off your stereo.
 

Kingrex

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The picture @PeterA posted had nothing to do with any speaker he was showing Brad the Goldmund & Neodio CD players we were talking about.

These JBLs have nothing in common with any PAP speaker, AFAIK PAP wasn’t even around when the JBLs were made. As far as what makes them special, lots of things. Read about their design criteria and the white paper associated with their creation then you’ll have some knowledge about why they’re special. Then go hear them somewhere.

david
My only point was they are 2 x 15" paper drivers in a box and a horn that looks exactly the same as mine in design. Since the thread was about large horn speakers, I thought it odd to include what does not strike me as a horn speaker. It looks more like a ported box speaker with a small horn in the center.
 

Ron Resnick

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Thanks again. But the main point was not the list, just a simple question - I will quote myself

"Did you listen to any other system with horns that created a similar suspension of disbelief in you?"

Tune Audio Avaton on piano.

Maybe Cessaro Zeta
 

morricab

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PAP tried other drivers. They found them to catch your attention out of the gate. But over time they were to analytical and made you turn off your stereo.
Sure whatever. I guess to keep cost down they didn't go with the far superior Beyma CP-755Ti Nd because it's 3x the price. Phenomenal driver.
 

Kingrex

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You dont know Morricab. I asked on this forum for a driver update. I don't know if the 755ti was the recommended one. I called Zeev and he said they were actually trying it and told me what I noted above. He asked if I wanted it on loan to hear for myself. I trusted their research and said no. I can dig up the emails, but I don't think its that important. I really don't view that speaker as a horn speaker. Its a box speaker with a small horn probably crossed at 1200 hertz. It may well sound great. There are lots of speakers that sound great.
 
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MarcelNL

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interesting report, I'll vouch for the fact that the Bionor design works well with digital!

at the upcoming BAM 2023 we may be able to hear an original set of Bionor's, two years ago the Euronor Junior (don't be fooled by that) was present, I think I prefer the Bionor design for clarity.

A few months ago I had a local audio meet and with some friends we compared tweeters to go with the Kugelwellenhorn design (design was made in the late thirties but only patented in the late fourties due to the WWII). You should not underestimate the impact of the baffle, and how it's made!

My project speaker is designed using the Bionor as template, we have compared several tweeters setups (pretty wide range of exotic tweeters including a Goto, JBL 75 Decca etc) against the original Bionor filter and tweeter horn (which actually is a midrange-tweeter).
After a lot of switching back and forth we concluded that using the woofers fullrange with a sine cap super tweeter added sounds better than the original design, more lively, more open plus more dynamic.

Bionor rocks!
 
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MarcelNL

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MarcelNL

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In the background "Euronor" style cinema horns type 2558 made in East Germany Funkwerk Leipzig
They seem a lot smaller than the euronor, even the euronor junior (heard those at BAM! In 2021)

Www.klangfilm.org
 
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asb

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Apr 17, 2017
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Size is similar to E. Junior. Horn opening is 190 cm and this is about the same as in E. J.
 

MarcelNL

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Suggest you talk to Peter from Klangfunken if you want the original Klangfilm goodies.

Not sure what makes this a bad replica?
 

MarcelNL

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no
Size is similar to E. Junior. Horn opening is 190 cm and this is about the same as in E. J.
not sure if we're looking at the same speaker, yet Euronor junior nor Euronor had 4 speakers that I'm aware of
 
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asb

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Apr 17, 2017
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First, you argue about size, now it is number of woofers ?
For your information :
Euronor Junior has two woofers Kl. L406, same as Eurodyn;
Euronor II, big size that nobody here has seen in natura and
not listed on Klangfilm.org, has four woofers Kl. L 406.
1673961332044.png
 

MarcelNL

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argue? I was genuinely wondering if we're looking at the same speaker.

thanks for the article, I have indeed not seen that one yet
 

asb

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2017
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I hinted at "Euronor" style cinema horns type 2558 made in East Germany Funkwerk Leipzig
visible in the Eurodyn video set up background of post 87, not less, not more.

Now please teach us what Klangfilm "Trionor' speaker" from your signature means.
 

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