David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System

[bonzo75]

Wrt the Klangfilm Euronor / Bionor I am truly curious what is the best sub match since the bass is horn loaded in upper range and essentially open baffle below, unlike VOTT which is bass reflex below ( again horn loaded only through mid bass ). I did hear a hybrid Klangfilm system with a very large FLH from Philips that was interesting...

The upper range fires forward without a rear wave/panel thing, the midwoofer does have a rear wave that uses the panels to beef p the midbass, so Leif is right that adding a BR would add another step not in line.

with VOTT, especially 817, everything till almost 100 hz is horn loaded and front firing, and even below that is front firing. It leads to a 2-way, first order, phase coherent, time aligned speaker.

 

[MarcelNL]

Oh I see. You meant the horns dropping off below 50 Hz, not the subs. That wasn't clear to me from the context.

sorry if I was not clear on that!

I agree with what others said, FLH are IMO the way to go when attempting to extend the low end of the Bionor as matching 'speed' is almost impossible.
I may not have the space required to do that in the 'final' build, yet I'm likely going to have some Tesla drivers converted to FC in the process.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I heard the WE16s at Tims place in 21 and the subs are from my Norwegian friends NNNN, which I´ve mentioned a few times here before, but most WBF members insists on buying high status solutions instead of stuff that really delivers the goods

 

[Ron Resnick]

The upper range fires forward without a rear wave/panel thing, the midwoofer does have a rear wave that uses the panels to beef p the midbass,

I am confused about this. I think David has a fabric cover enclosing the rear of the entire Eurodyne driver structure.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I am confused about this. I think David has a fabric cover enclosing the rear of the entire Eurodyne driver structure.

hardly airtight.......

 

[bonzo75]

I am confused about this. I think David has a fabric cover enclosing the rear of the entire Eurodyne driver structure.

fabric won’t stop the rear wave. It might reduce it. David’s walls are very far back from his panel. Tang’s are closer. Tang also has some panels on the front wall. This will all change things. The Paris bionor is closer and seems to be getting good reinforcement in the weight region as I preferred his weight though I can’t say if it is due to wall, electronics (all top Kondo), or, of course cables.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

tbh I think that fabric is more of a protective cover than acoustic remedy

 

[Solypsa]

With VOTT, especially 817, everything till almost 100 hz is horn loaded and front firing, and even below that is front firing. It leads to a 2-way, first order, phase coherent, time aligned speaker.

I like the VOTT a lot, so I am merely taking an academic response here...even if the BR is front ported the pathways for front wave and rear are not identical and rear or front at below 80hz is starting to split hairs. Or maybe I need to re read some fundamentals.

 

[MarcelNL]

The facbric is like cloth used for sails, some cover and some of it is acoustical IMO.

The full description is probably lacking yet the function is real...listen and learn

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

depends on the weight and density of course

 

[MarcelNL]

depends on the weight and density of course

surely, yet playing with the cloth showed that the impact is limited

 

[Ron Resnick]

What are you guys so defensive about? I really don't understand. . .

You guys are seriously contending that a fabric cover directly covering and enclosing loudspeaker drivers doesn't significantly attenuate air flow?

 

[bonzo75]

What are you guys so defensive about? I really don't understand. . .

You guys are seriously contending that a fabric cover directly covering and enclosing loudspeaker drivers doesn't significantly attenuate air flow?

? Who is defensive? It is part of the design that the panels are to stop the rear wave that comes back to beef up the weight. That's why on their website you will see certain specs for the width of the panels. Sure , you could have them without but that would be a different speaker. If they wanted to completely kill the rear wave, they would have closed the back with a wood cover. try putting a fabric on the front of your speaker and see what happens.

 

[MarcelNL]

What are you guys so defensive about? I really don't understand. . .

You guys are seriously contending that a fabric cover directly covering and enclosing loudspeaker drivers doesn't significantly attenuate air flow?

I'm not sure who is defensive about what?

fabric may significantly attanuate air flow, yet I doubt how much impact it can have on sound

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

What are you guys so defensive about? I really don't understand. . .

You guys are seriously contending that a fabric cover directly covering and enclosing loudspeaker drivers doesn't significantly attenuate air flow?

slightly misunderstood Ron?
it´s the rear of the driver that´s covered, not the direct radiating from front.....
significantly takes some serious dense and heavy fabric........

 

[Argonaut]

I'm not sure who is defensive about what?

fabric may significantly attanuate air flow, yet I doubt how much impact it can have on sound

Exactly so … most likely deployed to protect against bat and mice guano

 

[Ron Resnick]

slightly misunderstood Ron?
it´s the rear of the driver that´s covered, not the direct radiating from front.....
significantly takes some serious dense and heavy fabric........

Yes, I completely understand that is the rear of the Eurodyn driver structure that is covered. It seemed to me to be a fairly dense and heavy fabric. Very little sound is escaping that cover, I believe.

 

[MarcelNL]

Yes, I completely understand that is the rear of the Eurodyn driver structure that is covered. It seemed to me to be a fairly dense and heavy fabric. Very little sound is escaping that cover, I believe.

I have heard the original 'segeltuch' cover in place on the giant Euronor Junior at BAM! There is plenty of sound coming through it.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

you´d need a bale of Rockwool to stop any LF from that woofer

 

[jeff1225]

tbh I think that fabric is more of a protective cover than acoustic remedy

I agree, it’s function is to protect the drivers. Remember that these speakers were made for industrial applications only.