Ron, this very well summarizes the system for me. It compares the system sound to live music. And it refutes the often repeated notion that these kinds of systems can not do rock music. Thank you for sharing your impressions.
David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Ron, this very well summarizes the system for me. It compares the system sound to live music. And it refutes the often repeated notion that these kinds of systems can not do rock music. Thank you for sharing your impressions.
I'm tinkering with a final build of the Bionor based system, and discovered that the Klangfilm engineers had some nifty tricks up their sleeve that make it near impossible to recreate the design without tracing the horn curve of a real specimen.
My research seems to indicate that the first 2/3-3/4 of the horn (nearest to the speaker) is an exponential horn and the second bit is a Kugelwellen(spheric) horn. The patents were filed long after WW2 but originate to around 1940.
SO in other words....if someone happens to have a Bionor (a long shot I know) I'd be chuffed if we could arrange a curve tracing....a simple stretch of paper (need about 80cm and a pencil marking the curve and start of the last section (not the connecting funnel between speaker board (Breitstrahlgruppe) and the final horn with baffle) but just the curve of the final horn would do and will be GREATLY appreciated.
the alternative is calculating an alternative, I suspect the exact crossover point is not even THAT critical but the calculus is a faff with three different patents and several formulas each.
My research seems to indicate that the first 2/3-3/4 of the horn (nearest to the speaker) is an exponential horn and the second bit is a Kugelwellen(spheric) horn. The patents were filed long after WW2 but originate to around 1940.
SO in other words....if someone happens to have a Bionor (a long shot I know) I'd be chuffed if we could arrange a curve tracing....a simple stretch of paper (need about 80cm and a pencil marking the curve and start of the last section (not the connecting funnel between speaker board (Breitstrahlgruppe) and the final horn with baffle) but just the curve of the final horn would do and will be GREATLY appreciated.
the alternative is calculating an alternative, I suspect the exact crossover point is not even THAT critical but the calculus is a faff with three different patents and several formulas each.
Shows how brill those cats were with their slide rules and such 
for sure, I have loads of respect for the engineers in that era.Shows how brill those cats were with their slide rules and such
Fun fact, the massive Euronor was built after the chief of Klangfilm had heard a speaker system after the cinema organ during a US business trip. He thought the speaker system sounded so poor that he felt the need to do better.
Marcel, you can try this contact information for DDK:
NO LONGER PARTICIPATING ON WBF BUT WILL BE HAPPY STAY IN TOUCH WITH FRIENDS at vas_ut@icloud.com.
Jan 22, 2023
Thank you David for your years of valuable contributions to this forum. I learned a lot from your willingness to share your knowledge and experience about vintage audio, all things vinyl, and advocacy for natural sound. Your Beyond Turntable threads stand as a reference for all who are interested in what is possible.
Reactions:marmota, adyc, mtemur and 9 others
Thank you David for your years of valuable contributions to this forum. I learned a lot from your willingness to share your knowledge and experience about vintage audio, all things vinyl, and advocacy for natural sound. Your Beyond Turntable threads stand as a reference for all who are interested in what is possible.
Thank you Peter
Thank you Peter
Oh Gawd, how many more times …
Real nice. Interesting that you are here reading. Marcel asked for some information about Bionors. I can think of no one more qualified to answer his question. This is his contact information and signature before they were scrubbed from the site. DDK's contributions here are missed and the mere mention of his name should not cause consternation.
why not here? I have tried using my contacts and got no reply (yet). I fail to see any significance in the location for asking a question about speakers that are no longer produced and few people actually own....this thread is about someone actually owning them, if you can point me to any of my neighbours also owning a Bionor I'll gladly ring their doorbell ;-)...wish it were that simple.
(I do not think anyone has ever mentioned the possibility of Bionor being a hybrid Kugelwellen-exponential horn so happy to hear thoughts on that)
BTW; the reference to the manager of Klangfilm is purely anecdotal, I was for sure not present.
Try contacting Thomas Schick and Frank Schroeder , they organised the ETF (European Triode Festival ) Berlin 2012 where a gentleman by the name of Andreas provided his pair of Bioners as the Test system transducers for the S.P.U.D amp shootout , they may be able to assist.
Perhaps join up to this Klangfilm FB page and make enquiries https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100069403153604
Try contacting the admin at https://www.melaudia.net/contacter.php , they may also know of a member with Bioner in EU .
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I am sitting in front of one right now, since yesterday. With Studer C37, continuum and Schroeder LT, and Kondo G10, G1000, and Kagura with United 211
I am glad you found the help you needed. Good luck with what sounds like a fascinating project.
Can you share those dimensions and the cut off frequency with us?
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