Does Everything Make a Difference?

[exupgh12]

While we audiophiles aim for the best possible sound reproduction and pay attention to various elements in our audio setup (electricity, equipment, tweeks, material, isolation, placement, acoustics, etc..), the significance of each component’s impact on sound quality can be subjective and contingent on personal preferences, listening habits, and the overall audio system’s quality.

 

[Rensselaer]

https://storytellingforeveryone.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/1000x-1.jpg

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for your opening this thread.


His definition about the change was absolutely the same as mine.


Regarding the Japanese wood block; I heard the same effect on his (my friend's) and my system cause we both have the same Oyaide dedicated AC line running from meter to receptacle. And we heard the same opposite effect under speaker cables because we both have the same double run Kondo SPs 2.7 cable.


I would hear the same effect in a blind test because it's not about my hearing ability, it's about improving the system's ability to reflect changes. The more your system improves (I don't want to use the word transparent) the more it becomes open to reflect changes.

Thank you for these thoughtful answers.

 

[audiopro92]

11

Everything makes a difference. Recently I listened to a friend’s system which I’m very familiar. After 10 minutes of listening I felt like it sounds different than usual, just a little bit like transistorized. BTW it’s transistor free all tubed system (32 tubes in total). I asked my friend what he has changed thinking his answer would be Telefunken ecc802s tubes on his Kaguras, but he said he only added a wood block under the dedicated AC line. The dedicated AC line is solid core Oyaide cable hanged by natural silk on various places and it’s running from meter to the receptacle back of the system. There was just one place which is not hanged by silk but sitting over a wood block. What he did was replacing that regular wood block with the one we bought during our recent trip to Japan. Only one piece of wood under AC line managed to make a noticeable change to my friend’s system. Afterwards I tried same wood block on my system with similar results. Strangely the same wood work the opposite way under speaker cables.

IMHO if your system gets closer to real music there won’t be tube or transistor sound and there won’t be vinyl or cd sound cause real music is neither of those. It’s just music.

brilliant post...

 

[Kingrex]

I need new amp stands. I currently have some 1.5 inch acrylic stands. I have been told acrylic holds static. Use wood or something else.

Then there is the solid, edge or end grain cuts.

And definitely the finish. Oil or shellac or polyurethane. Vibration control does matter.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...the SRA stands are very nice, if to your taste and budget. I use the Ohio-class XL2s.

Silent Running Audio – Advancing the Science of Silence

www.silentrunningaudio.com

 

[DaveC]

Type of wood certainly matters. We (a couple of friends) usually use ebony, Gabon or Macassar ebony to be more specific. Waxed or nude also makes as much difference as wood type. We usually do experiments with shellacked ebony and sometimes with Canadian maple. For example a 30 or 40 layers shellacked ebony stand under a component hugely differs from nude ebony. Differs in a good way but I'm not very fond of ebony (long story). In the above mentioned example we used a very hard Japanese wood, 5cm cube, nude, sanded. I don't know the type, looks plain wood but extremely hard.
View attachment 121423

I only mentioned this example to point out how strangely everything makes a difference. I additionally use ebony under cables. There are lots of tweaks like this but occasionally sounding good. Reliable evaluation takes at least two weeks time. Not a 10 sec decision.

Yup, mechanical damping of stereo gear makes a huge difference. We're manipulating the feedback the system produces. A short explanation is the stereo itself transforms electricity into sound, the speaker drivers are transducers. That's straightforward... but like most things its far more complicated because the sound the speakers make is transduced back to an electrical signal via many different pathways, and then back to soundwaves by the drivers.

Some obvious mechanisms for this are phono carts and tubes, both are known to be microphonic. But so are many other things at lower levels, like capacitors.

Whether feedback sounds good or not has its basis in psychoacoustics, the question being does the feedback sound more like the ear/brain mechanism expects? If yes, it's better... if not, then it's worse. Part of the magic of a good system is it's ability to sound psychoacoustically correct, rather than just reproduce what's on the recording. This is accomplished by extending decay,. as decay is truncated in the recording and playback processes.

Another interesting way to do this is via room acoustics in the form of resonators. Most here have seen them... dish or bowl shaped pieces of metal strategically placed around the room. Seems silly for sure, one step short of a shakti stone or clever clock. But what they can do is totally valid, they store energy and release it over time, thereby extending decay. When designed and used properly (not a given), they can make the music sound more psychoustically correct. Vocals seem more realistic, clear and vibrant, where without they can come off as dull and incomplete.

In any case, here's an example of materials I use in a new cable I have coming out, Macassar Ebony and Basalt fiber used in the jacket of an interconnect cable.

 

[DaveC]

I need new amp stands. I currently have some 1.5 inch acrylic stands. I have been told acrylic holds static. Use wood or something else.

Then there is the solid, edge or end grain cuts.

And definitely the finish. Oil or shellac or polyurethane. Vibration control does matter.

Static is a major issue. That's why Furutech sells demag products and their parts use "NCF" material. The new cable I just posted above goes through a lot of effort to address this issue, which is called triboelectric noise when associated with electronics.

A big block of hardwood is hard to wrong with. Maybe not the most ideal, but far from poor and can be quite inexpensive dependig on where you acquire it. Also, brass is good for component weighting and footers. Years ago I got a bunch of 1lb brass plumb-bobs from Harbor Freight for about $5 ea, and they can be combined with wood or viscoelastic materials as well. This is pretty much the basis for commercial footers... take some materials with different mechanical impedances and stack them together. If you can measure and come up with a scheme that attenuates different frequencies of vibration equally, then it'll probably sound good. Too much soft materials generally are very uneven in the frequencies they attenuate/absorb, so stacking a bunch of harder materials with only a thin layer of softer viscoelastic material to form a constrained layer damping system is the only valid use of soft materials ime.

 

[Kingrex]

Good looking cables Dave. I forwarded your link to a friend that needs an interconnect. And speaker cables.

 

[Mcsnare]

Who are these trained listeners you're talking about? In my case I was taught audio by Techtronix engineers when I was a teenager. I found out when I had dinner with John Atkinson after the Annual Gala that he is self-taught as is Amir at ASR. Robert Harley of TAS claims to have an audio engineering degree but nobody can tell me where he got it from. So, I'm leery about saying trained listeners.

I think experienced listener is a better term than trained listener.
I have had no formal ear training, but I’m a very experienced listener. Maybe too experienced.

 

[Al M.]

Good looking cables Dave. I forwarded your link to a friend that needs an interconnect. And speaker cables.

Those are going to be my next cables, when I have money, that is. I've heard them already. In the meantime I'm continuing to enjoy DaveC's ZenWave D4 interconnects and SSR-11 silver speaker cables. I *love* how my system sounds with them (it's powered through ZenWave power cables as well). Tonight I had another fantastic listening session. With Bruckner 4 I almost felt transported to the Musikverein concert hall in Vienna, to a legendary performance of the symphony recorded 50 years ago.

 

[bonzo75]

And I compared waxed oiled or nude and did not hear a difference.

he was referring to the wood

 

[tima]

Hi Peter,

To my mind, having a clear target is the most important thing in trying to improve an audio system. If you don't know where you are going you will never get there.

For me the critical criteria (in order) are timing, coherency, dynamics and tone.

The hard part, imo, is understanding what is your target. Returning to my roots to better know my values, it was straightforward to recognize that the sound of live acoustic music was my target.

Since we are talking Greek philosophers with Heraclitus, I'll refer to Zeno: achieving the sound of live classical music from my stereo is like walking half the distance to my goal, then walking half the distance again and so on. The best I can hope for is asymptotically to approach that target, so I am satisfied with striving for a natural sound.

Without a reference - something independent of daily whims -- a target is difficult to discover and hold fast. We see that in the churn, the high rate of equipment turnover.

And Yes. When people say or ask what are the key critical elements for home audio reproduction, my answer is "look at the score." To the musician reading it, the relevant marks it contains are for timing, dynamics and tone. The conductor is responsible for coherency.

 

[Ron Resnick]

To my mind, having a clear target is the most important thing in trying to improve an audio system.

For me the critical criteria (in order) are timing

When comparing components what is your target?

For example, when comparing two different power cables, how do you evaluate "timing"?

 

[Ron Resnick]

The type of wood definitely matters. The dimension of the wood definitely matters. I did compare rip sawed or cross cut and I did not hear a difference. And I compared waxed oiled or nude and did not hear a difference.

I would be very curious to know if you hear any effect from Shun Mooks.

 

[bonzo75]

I would be very curious to know if you hear any effect from Shun Mooks.

why don’t you ask mtemur who wrote about the wood

 

[Ron Resnick]

why don’t you ask mtemur who wrote about the wood

Because I already know he's going to hear a difference.

 

[tima]

For example, when comparing two different power cables, how do you evaluate "timing"?

I can't talk about power cables; for interconnects there is a relatively straightforward example. Background first:

"Under typical conditions, an audio signal traveling via alternating current suffers its existence in an environment of shifting magnetic and electrical forces that alter the original signal coming off a component’s output. When current flows through an insulated wire, it does not pass through the insulation, but it does interact with it. The alternating current polarizes the particles of the atoms of the insulating material (the cable’s dielectric), which causes them to shift position according to the frequency and polarity of the signal at hand. As long as the AC polarity holds, the dielectric acts like a capacitor, maintaining a charged electric field. In a sense, the dielectric retains energy as a memory of the audio signal at the point when it was polarized. As time passes, the polarity of the current alternates, taking with it the polarity of the dielectric. This "dielectric relaxation" releases the remembered energy, which induces tiny new currents within the conductor, currents that are not indigenous to the signal presently on the wire. If it’s not part of the original audio signal, it’s distortion." (from my review, here.)

So an interconnect suffering from this phenomena may present signal timing issues. How may that be perceived? It may be perceived as what I'll call a 'smeared' signal, as, in a way of speaking, signal energy from the past may arrive too late. The percept may be a blurring or fuzziness in sound, or a shortening of decay. There are a couple manufacturers who have a means to mitigate or prevent this. And for others, choice of dielectric material (with different dielectric constants) may have an influence. Call it what you like, resolution or clarity, this smearing or its absence is greater or lesser between different interconnects.

 

[morricab]

The hard part, imo, is understanding what is your target. Returning to my roots to better know my values, it was straightforward to recognize that the sound of live acoustic music was my target.

Since we are talking Greek philosophers with Heraclitus, I'll refer to Zeno: achieving the sound of live classical music from my stereo is like walking half the distance to my goal, then walking half the distance again and so on. The best I can hope for is asymptotically to approach that target, so I am satisfied with striving for a natural sound.

Without a reference - something independent of daily whims -- a target is difficult to discover and hold fast. We see that in the churn, the high rate of equipment turnover.

And Yes. When people say or ask what are the key critical elements for home audio reproduction, my answer is "look at the score." To the musician reading it, the relevant marks it contains are for timing, dynamics and tone. The conductor is responsible for coherency.

Nice post, Tim. I know we don’t always agree Tim but on these points we are fully aligned. I have been banging this drum since I joined this forum now many years ago. In that time our systems have converged , interesting given our basic philosophy is also aligned.

 

[Rensselaer]

I can't talk about power cables; for interconnects there is a relatively straightforward example. Background first:

"Under typical conditions, an audio signal traveling via alternating current suffers its existence in an environment of shifting magnetic and electrical forces that alter the original signal coming off a component’s output. When current flows through an insulated wire, it does not pass through the insulation, but it does interact with it. The alternating current polarizes the particles of the atoms of the insulating material (the cable’s dielectric), which causes them to shift position according to the frequency and polarity of the signal at hand. As long as the AC polarity holds, the dielectric acts like a capacitor, maintaining a charged electric field. In a sense, the dielectric retains energy as a memory of the audio signal at the point when it was polarized. As time passes, the polarity of the current alternates, taking with it the polarity of the dielectric. This "dielectric relaxation" releases the remembered energy, which induces tiny new currents within the conductor, currents that are not indigenous to the signal presently on the wire. If it’s not part of the original audio signal, it’s distortion." (from my review, here.)

So an interconnect suffering from this phenomena may present signal timing issues. How may that be perceived? It may be perceived as what I'll call a 'smeared' signal, as, in a way of speaking, signal energy from the past may arrive too late. The percept may be a blurring or fuzziness in sound, or a shortening of decay. There are a couple manufacturers who have a means to mitigate or prevent this. And for others, choice of dielectric material (with different dielectric constants) may have an influence. Call it what you like, resolution or clarity, this smearing or its absence is greater or lesser between different interconnects.

And, since the wire (even silver) presents some resistance, the capacitance in parallel forms a low-pass filter, yes? Isn’t this the physics used by some to tune their systems, by choice of interconnects?