Does Tonal Balance Affect Perceived Pace and Perceived Resolution?

[Ron Resnick]

Ron as a fellow want to be "influencer " you know making other people like what you like is the game !

My goal is to help other people understand what they like and why they like it so that they can achieve maximum emotional engagement with the music they love.

 

[Lagonda]

My goal is to help other people understand what they like and why they like it so that they can achieve maximum emotional engagement with the music they love.

And some times sell them a pair of speakers !

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This might be the most ridiculous generalisation I have read on the forum.

Aside from that, wilson type speakers and krell blessed amplifier styles are more popular in the US and are the biggest culprits of bad tone . If one were to generalize, I would say American audiophiles are obsessed with big, loud, expensive objects.

i think it's more economics and the suburban lifestyle. in the USA the typical upper middle class lives on larger property, has a larger home, and works more hours, and retires later than many parts of the world. which drives lots of different things, one being more likely to have a home theater when that was in vogue, a larger 2 channel room when that was in vogue, and American hifi dealers sold different gear fitting different life styles.

they are not predisposed for larger speakers and big loud systems. but that is what was offered more so than other parts of the world.

other parts of the world have higher living densities, smaller homes/apartments, higher taxes, work fewer hours, retire sooner. they take a month off in the summer, more holidays.

so marketplace realities are what they are.

but lots of American audiophiles evolved beyond the brick and mortar brands, but still had more space and options for room space and more disposable income to spend.

smaller spaces and less disposable income did push things to different places.......generally........alternative driver types and speaker sizes, alternative amplification types.

 

[bonzo75]

i think it's more economics and the suburban lifestyle. in the USA the typical upper middle class lives on larger property, has a larger home, and works more hours, and retires later than many parts of the world. which drives lots of different things, one being more likely to have a home theater when that was in vogue, a larger 2 channel room when that was in vogue, and American hifi dealers sold different gear fitting different life styles.

other parts of the world have higher living densities, smaller homes/apartments, work fewer hours, retire sooner. they take a month off in the summer, more holidays.

so marketplace realities are what they are.

but lots of American audiophiles evolved beyond the brick and mortar brands, but still had more space and options for room space and more disposable income to spend.

smaller spaces and less disposable income did push things to different places.......generally........alternative driver types and speaker sizes, alternative amplification types.

Sorry, but there is no correlation between size attributes, price, and quality unless you are taking extreme miniature stuff at 100 quid. Beyond that it is a measure of lack of exposure and paying to avoid FOMO

 

[morricab]

And some times sell them a pair of speakers !

Some slightly used Pendragons??

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Sorry, but there is no correlation between size attributes, price, and quality unless you are taking extreme miniature stuff at 100 quid. Beyond that it is a measure of lack of exposure and paying to avoid FOMO

i'm not making any connection to performance at all. just talking about how economics and living space affected product offerings. products that fit that became successful. rode the wave.

maybe another thing is that in Europe classical music in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's was much more a part of life than in the USA. so that was maybe a driver too. musically the typical listener was looking for something different. in the USA classical is still under the radar comparatively. community support for classical in the USA is comparatively minimal.

 

[bonzo75]

i'm not making any connection to performance at all. just talking about how economics and living space affected product offerings. products that fit that became successful. rode the wave.

maybe another thing is that in Europe classical music in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's was much more a part of life than in the USA. so that was maybe a driver too. musically the typical listener was looking for something different. in the USA classical is still under the radar comparatively. community support for classical in the USA is comparatively minimal.

so you are saying the listeners here are more sophisticated. I will take that

 

[DaveC]

Aside from that, wilson type speakers and krell blessed amplifier styles are more popular in the US and are the biggest culprits of bad tone . If one were to generalize, I would say American audiophiles are obsessed with big, loud, expensive objects.

If you want a reasonable sized speaker that can reproduce complex classical music intelligibly at fairly realistic SPLs and have frequency extension down to nearly 20 Hz, it's not going to be an efficient speaker and it'll be compromised a bit more on other aspects of performance to some degree.

 

[mtemur]

i think it's more economics and the suburban lifestyle. in the USA the typical upper middle class lives on larger property, has a larger home, and works more hours, and retires later than many parts of the world. which drives lots of different things, one being more likely to have a home theater when that was in vogue, a larger 2 channel room when that was in vogue, and American hifi dealers sold different gear fitting different life styles.

they are not predisposed for larger speakers and big loud systems. but that is what was offered more so than other parts of the world.

other parts of the world have higher living densities, smaller homes/apartments, higher taxes, work fewer hours, retire sooner. they take a month off in the summer, more holidays.

so marketplace realities are what they are.

but lots of American audiophiles evolved beyond the brick and mortar brands, but still had more space and options for room space and more disposable income to spend.

smaller spaces and less disposable income did push things to different places.......generally........alternative driver types and speaker sizes, alternative amplification types.

I understood your approach and cannot argue with your points. IMHO the biggest difference between houses in USA and Europe is drywall. In Europe or other parts of the world houses or apartments are build from bricks or concrete which is extremely stiff compared to drywall. Unlike concrete or brick, walls made of 2X4 wood lumbers that covered with drywalls on both sides are extremely reverberant. It requires a lot of treatment in a never ending story. I wonder why people try to add a subwoofer to their already full range speakers that can go down to 25Hz, trying to bring it down more to 20Hz? And why doing it in a drywalled room?

IMHO the biggest upgrade an audiophile in USA can do is moving to an all concrete/ brick walled listening room. Drywall is the worst thing I ever encountered, worse than glass to my ears.

 

[bonzo75]

If you want a reasonable sized speaker that can reproduce complex classical music intelligibly at fairly realistic SPLs and have frequency extension down to nearly 20 Hz, it's not going to be an efficient speaker and it'll be compromised a bit more on other aspects of performance to some degree.

No it won’t, but no point having the same debate again

 

[Mike Lavigne]

so you are saying the listeners here are more sophisticated. I will take that

in some ways that is not wrong. OTOH i think larger systems have their attributes too. they are not all a caricature that you make them out to be.

hey, we have to give the Japanese their credit for the re-awakening of the SET direction.....which was adapted by different markets at different times and frequencies......some based on the music focus and space issues. and also in the USA there has always been a large DIY underground for years. in my area it's a really big deal (The Valve Group) that never was into the big hifi dealer stuff.

 

[PeterA]

My goal is to help other people understand what they like and why they like it so that they can achieve maximum emotional engagement with the music they love.

@Ron Resnick , do you think people need help understanding what they like and why they like it? And how do you go about trying to help them?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I understood your approach and cannot argue with your points. IMHO the biggest difference between houses in USA and Europe is drywall. In Europe or other parts of the world houses or apartments are build from bricks or concrete which is extremely stiff compared to drywall. Unlike concrete or brick, walls made of 2X4 wood lumbers that covered with drywalls on both sides are extremely reverberant. It requires a lot of treatment in a never ending story. I wonder why people try to add a subwoofer to their already full range speakers that can go down to 25Hz, trying to bring it down more to 20Hz? And why doing it in a drywalled room?

IMHO the biggest upgrade an audiophile in USA can do is moving to an all concrete/ brick walled listening room. Drywall is the worst thing I ever encountered, worse than glass to my ears.

both my rooms in the last 30 years have been very solid (especially my current dedicated room) and finished with 3/4" plywood, not drywall. agree drywall can cause loss of musical energy......a softening of the musical propulsion.

 

[bonzo75]

My goal is to help other people understand what they like and why they like it so that they can achieve maximum emotional engagement with the music they love.

You sound like Jerry Maguire. How much to help you help me

 

[mtemur]

both my rooms in the last 30 years have been very solid and finished with 3/4" plywood, not drywall. agree drywall can cause loss of musical energy......a softening of the musical propulsion.

Plywood is just a tad better than drywall which is still very bad. BTW my comments were in general, not aimed to your room.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Plywood is just a tad better than drywall which is still very bad. BTW my comments were in general, not aimed to your room.

no offense taken. music needs leverage to come alive.

agree that room construction is important in any system and effects what we hear and the level of musical engagement. i disagree that any particular era of homes or type of construction is uniquely better than another. each case is separate. small room acoustics is a hard case. larger rooms have greater needs, and greater performance ceilings.

 

[PeterA]

I understood your approach and cannot argue with your points. IMHO the biggest difference between houses in USA and Europe is drywall. In Europe or other parts of the world houses or apartments are build from bricks or concrete which is extremely stiff compared to drywall. Unlike concrete or brick, walls made of 2X4 wood lumbers that covered with drywalls on both sides are extremely reverberant. It requires a lot of treatment in a never ending story. I wonder why people try to add a subwoofer to their already full range speakers that can go down to 25Hz, trying to bring it down more to 20Hz? And why doing it in a drywalled room?

IMHO the biggest upgrade an audiophile in USA can do is moving to an all concrete/ brick walled listening room. Drywall is the worst thing I ever encountered, worse than glass to my ears.

This is why I am experimenting with solid wood planks of different species around my fireplace, which is clad in drywall. The rest of the room is very heavy horse hair lathe and plaster. The real problem is the fireplace surround and it protrudes into the room between the speakers. The wood planks help. The problem with plywood is all the glue.

 

[hopkins]

i think it's more economics and the suburban lifestyle. in the USA the typical upper middle class lives on larger property, has a larger home, and works more hours, and retires later than many parts of the world. which drives lots of different things, one being more likely to have a home theater when that was in vogue, a larger 2 channel room when that was in vogue, and American hifi dealers sold different gear fitting different life styles.

they are not predisposed for larger speakers and big loud systems. but that is what was offered more so than other parts of the world.

other parts of the world have higher living densities, smaller homes/apartments, higher taxes, work fewer hours, retire sooner. they take a month off in the summer, more holidays.

Reminds me of this funny commercial (no harm intended)

 

[mxk116]

The two you reference in the post upon which I commented.

Thanks.

Ron shared that both videos were made with the same tape (his tape of Soular Energy).

Same tape, same performance; no?

 

[Robh3606]

Yes. I have used that, and it’s great. When angry people punch the wall in a rental unit, they hurt their hands. I think this is a good solution with a skim coat of real plaster over it.

I deleted the post thinking not helpful!

Rob