Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.

[PeterA]

Mike, Christian, and anyone else who cares to comment-

I am considering the Herzan TS-140 to go under my SME20/2 which sits on top of the pictured Billy Bags rack. Is this rack likely to be OK? Am I likely to consider it worth the expense?
Comments, suggestions?
Thanks,
Tom

Tom, here is a comment or suggestion: would an SME 20/2 with active Herzan TS-140 isolation outperform an SME 30/12 on a sturdy rack or an SME 30 on a Vibraplane? The increased performance of a higher model SME (with 12" arm) might be a better option for similar cost. It is worth investigating, IMO.

Or, what phono stage or cartridge upgrade could you do for the cost of the Herzan? Just a thought.

Even though an active isolation platform may provide worthwhile improvements, I think an unsuspended turntable would benefit even more than the already effectively suspended SME turntables. It is worth considering other options for the same cost.

 

[MtnHam]

Tom, here is a comment or suggestion: would an SME 20/2 with active Herzan TS-140 isolation outperform an SME 30/12 on a sturdy rack or an SME 30 on a Vibraplane? The increased performance of a higher model SME (with 12" arm) might be a better option for similar cost. It is worth investigating, IMO.

Or, what phono stage or cartridge upgrade could you do for the cost of the Herzan? Just a thought.

Hello Peter- Yes I also had considered that possibility. Of course, I might then still want to add the Herzan!
I am happy with the REF2, but will want to bump up the cartridge soon too.

 

[Steve williams]

Tom

I too agree with Peter's suggestion in terms of bang for the buck

 

[rockitman]

Mike, Christian, and anyone else who cares to comment-

I am considering the Herzan TS-140 to go under my SME20/2 which sits on top of the pictured Billy Bags rack. Is this rack likely to be OK? Am I likely to consider it worth the expense?
Comments, suggestions?
Thanks,
Tom

View attachment 27967

I wish I could say for sure. If there is no lateral/horizontal sway type movement when you push on it...it might work. I would ask for a product demo first to see if it works with both your stand and TT. There are no guarantees. If it doesn't work...you are only out shipping costs to and from your home. I would also consider minus-k for a cheaper and simpler alternative. With vibrplane you have to deal with a noisy compressor and a heavy pre load weight.

 

[BruceD]

Been observing this thread--Minus K have an excellent Stand pictured--adjustable feet--they are detachable to enable filling the Columns with Sand/lead/etc

absolutely stable and solid--good pricing too

Recommended --I use one with an MK Platform under my TT.

Worth considering

BruceD

PS : Agree also on the Vibraplane--My friend had one--the thing rang like a Bell--he sold it

 

[rockitman]

Been observing this thread--Minus K have an excellent Stand pictured--adjustable feet--they are detachable to enable filling the Columns with Sand/lead/etc

absolutely stable and solid--good pricing too

Recommended --I use one with an MK Platform under my TT.

Worth considering

BruceD

PS : Agree also on the Vibraplane--My friend had one--the thing rang like a Bell--he sold it

That stand is an interesting option and affordable. I need to find out more on the construction. Are the legs, ect welded steel box construction. The 24"x24" is the perfect platform size.

 

[BruceD]

That stand is an interesting option and affordable. I need to find out more on the construction. Are the legs, ect welded steel box construction. The 24"x24" is the perfect platform size.

Yes worth your investigation --I can assist any fine details the factory may not be able to help with--it is Welded construction with a Phenolic ( Hard resin material) top plate screwed on--the feet come off and adjustable--I have Brass cones screwed into the inserts replacing the Flat supplied plates

Been in use with me for 3 years-- ha!--used to be $750USD--you can buy Factory direct--as far as I know they do not discount.

Worth it and good value honest product

BruceD

 

[PeterA]

I wish I could say for sure. If there is no lateral/horizontal sway type movement when you push on it...it might work. I would ask for a product demo first to see if it works with both your stand and TT. There are no guarantees. If it doesn't work...you are only out shipping costs to and from your home. I would also consider minus-k for a cheaper and simpler alternative. With vibrplane you have to deal with a noisy compressor and a heavy pre load weight.

If one wants to spend the money, I agree it would be worth it to do a home audition of the Herzan unit.

I have three Vibraplanes all hooked up to one compressor in my living room. It is not noisy and only runs for about twenty seconds once a day. I haven't heard it while playing music at the same time for months, so this is an unfair criticism, imo. I do have a good $500 compressor recommended by Sounds of Silence, the Vibraplane distributor.

The heavy ballast plate is also not required. I added them at minor cost because I found it improves performance still further. I understand though if people do not want to deal with these issues.

I think the Minus-K needs to be balanced properly to function optimally, and that could be an issue for some turntable designs.

We all have different budgets and priorities. I think the Minus-K, Vibraplane, and Herzan are all effective solutions depending on what one wants and is willing to spend.

It's interesting that ddk, who seems to have a superb collection of mass loaded turntables, does not use any of these isolation products. I would be interested to read if David has tried any of them and what the results were.

EDIT: Ideally, I would want a stand like the welded box section steel tables used by Kinetic Systems and other companies, but my wife would not allow one of these massive 300+ lb industrial metal stands in our formal living room. She is tolerant enough, bless her.

 

[rockitman]

Yes worth your investigation --I can assist any fine details the factory may not be able to help with--it is Welded construction with a Phenolic ( Hard resin material) top plate screwed on--the feet come off and adjustable--I have Brass cones screwed into the inserts replacing the Flat supplied plates

Been in use with me for 3 years-- ha!--used to be $750USD--you can buy Factory direct--as far as I know they do not discount.

Worth it and good value honest product

BruceD

I didn't realize you own this table. Will it have any problem supporting a 300lb load ? How much weight do you have on yours ? Are the legs completely rigid...no horizontal sway when you push on it ? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Herzan is California also has a custom fabrication facility to make custom welded tubular steel support stand/tables. A table in similar size to th minus K table will weigh in excess is 100lbs. I don't think the minus k option is rigid enough for my application. At least with Herzan building it, they will be able to test it with a TS140 unit to make sure it works.

 

[BruceD]

I didn't realize you own this table. Will it have any problem supporting a 300lb load ? How much weight do you have on yours ? Are the legs completely rigid...no horizontal sway when you push on it ? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Herzan is California also has a custom fabrication facility to make custom welded tubular steel support stand/tables. A table in similar size to th minus K table will weigh in excess is 100lbs. I don't think the minus k option is rigid enough for my application. At least with Herzan building it, they will be able to test it with a TS140 unit to make sure it works.

Well if Herzan will custom make a stand for you----problem solved.

I have 230lb loading on the Table plus - already filled est' 54Ib+ 50/50 Silica sand 20 Gauge lead--ha! I don't think an Elephant could budge it fully loaded --

As an aside PeterAt is correct he MK does require some fiddling re balance of TT's with sep motor weights /etc but seems to work once levelled.

Horses for Courses

Good luck

BruceD

 

[marty]

Anybody looking for serious support tables ought to look at one of the many sites that sell used laboratory equipment. Optical benches, stands and tables can be found for a fraction of their cost when new. These may include both pneumatic isolation as well as piezoelectric isolation devices similar to the Herzan.

https://www.bmisurplus.com/products/category/optical-tables-breadboards-legs-bases

http://www.capovani.com/iinfo.cfm?itemno=162587

 

[rockitman]

My custom stand design from Herzan. The front of the lower shelves will be flat...not indented like the schematic. The frame is 2" steel box tube welded. 11" of space between the two shelves below the top shelf. Top shelf is 20" x 24". The shelves will be damped.

 

[PeterA]

Christian, what is the dimension of your custom HRS platform designed to support your TechDas? Somehow I thought it was greater than 20" X 24" in one dimension.

 

[rockitman]

Christian, what is the dimension of your custom HRS platform designed to support your TechDas? Somehow I thought it was greater than 20" X 24" in one dimension.

the HRS TechDas bread bd. is 19x27". The 5" diameter feet (4) are not on the edge of the platform and are indented underneath. The AF1 is too long to fit directly on the TS-140. The indented feet on the TechDas HRS bread bd. sit perfectly on the TS140. Weight is evenly distributed at all four corners. The HRS platform and AF1 weigh in at 270lbs. That is the weigh load on my TS140...I had stiffer springs added to give an additional 50kg weight capacity over the stock model....from 300lb to 400lbs roughly.

 

[Steve williams]

Hi Christian

With your more rigid springs on the Herzan bringing the load to 400 lbs and yours at 270 lbs is there a concern that there isn't a sufficient load for your Herzan

 

[Ron Resnick]

My custom stand design from Herzan. The front of the lower shelves will be flat...not indented like the schematic. The frame is 2" steel box tube welded. . . .

I like the steel box tube all welded. I think that is the way to go!

 

[rockitman]

Hi Christian

With your more rigid springs on the Herzan bringing the load to 400 lbs and yours at 270 lbs is there a concern that there isn't a sufficient load for your Herzan

Not necessarily with active isolation tables. The stock TS-140 has no minimum weight needed to engage active isolation. My unit with the heavier springs requires a minimum of 100lb's.

 

[Steve williams]

Got it. I thought that was the minimum weights you posted.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm considering lab grade isolation for my tt from a British company up there with Herzan and Accurion, called Spiers And Robertson
They run spring and air passive designs good to 2Hz and electronic active good to 0.5Hz, all 20% cheaper than the competition and all British made (great for any issues like Christian's if you live in the UK)
My idea is to buy a heavy inert 2 tier slate stand firmly spiked into the floor with no movement in any plane to provide the solidity for one of the Spiers

 

[rockitman]

My custom TT stand made by Herzan arrived today on a freight shipping pallet. It weighs roughly 150lbs and is made from welded 2" steel box tubing. It has a thick damping plate on top (1/2" plate) and damping plates...thinner 1/8" on the lower component shelves. It is amazing how well constructed it is. The best part, my TS-140 functions properly due to the stand's horizontal rigidity.

Cost ? Let's just say stereo stand makers cannot compete. It is a bargain. I will not disclose pricing as everyone's needs are different and Herzan would be happy to design to your spec and provide a quote. My stand cost me less than $2000.00.