Koetsu
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I use a Koetsu Blue Lace Agate Platinum with my SME 20/12 turntable, mounted on an SME V12 arm. After years of suffering through Lyra etc. cartridges and their hyper elevated piercing treble, I’m entirely satisfied with the sound of Koetsu. One key reason is that unlike every other cartridge manufacturer, Koetsu’’s roll off the treble. This is a beautiful decision, because it’s in the high treble that moving coil cartridges have their highest distortion, usually around 10%-20%. Check out this review in Hi Fi News, one if the very few magazines that actually measures the response curves of cartridges. Every Koetsu has a similar profile of a rolled off treble. I like this sound. It’s what I prefer as opposed to the hyper elevated treble of Lyra, van den Hul, and Ortofon who have nasty treble peaks, making the distortion much worse.
Koetsu Urushi Vermillion Cartridge Lab Report
Lab Report A schism is widening in the world of pick-up design. On the one hand there are brands pushing at the edge of suspension design, generator efficiency, low tip and moving mass, while employing sophisticated yokes and body materials. Recent examples include the Ortofon MC Anna Diamond...www.hifinews.com
Compare this response to the elevated treble of the Lyra Etna. Lots of people like this hyper brilliant sound, possible because they like hyper bright metallic tweeters. I don’t. It makes me run out the room with my ears closed.
Lyra Etna SL cartridge Lab Report
This 'naked' but rigidly-constructed cartridge offers just about the best combination of extended response, low distortion, generator uniformity and trackability that I've measured in years, if not decades. Its 285µV output (re. 1kHz at 5cm/sec into 50-200ohm) is on target and the stereo...
Koetsu and SME are very poor match for each other. Lyra, ortofon, and vdh have more highs compared to koetsu but they are quite different from each other. And the lambda series of Lyra is different from its predecessors.
I agree… I had a lot of trouble finding the right balance in my sound when I was trying out which cart should suit my system best.I use a Koetsu Blue Lace Agate Platinum with my SME 20/12 turntable, mounted on an SME V12 arm. After years of suffering through Lyra etc. cartridges and their hyper elevated piercing treble, I’m entirely satisfied with the sound of Koetsu. One key reason is that unlike every other cartridge manufacturer, Koetsu’’s roll off the treble. This is a beautiful decision, because it’s in the high treble that moving coil cartridges have their highest distortion, usually around 10%-20%. Check out this review in Hi Fi News, one if the very few magazines that actually measures the response curves of cartridges. Every Koetsu has a similar profile of a rolled off treble. I like this sound. It’s what I prefer as opposed to the hyper elevated treble of Lyra, van den Hul, and Ortofon who have nasty treble peaks, making the distortion much worse.
Koetsu Urushi Vermillion Cartridge Lab Report
Lab Report A schism is widening in the world of pick-up design. On the one hand there are brands pushing at the edge of suspension design, generator efficiency, low tip and moving mass, while employing sophisticated yokes and body materials. Recent examples include the Ortofon MC Anna Diamond...
Compare this response to the elevated treble of the Lyra Etna. Lots of people like this hyper brilliant sound, possible because they like hyper bright metallic tweeters. I don’t. It makes me run out the room with my ears closed.
Lyra Etna SL cartridge Lab Report
This 'naked' but rigidly-constructed cartridge offers just about the best combination of extended response, low distortion, generator uniformity and trackability that I've measured in years, if not decades. Its 285µV output (re. 1kHz at 5cm/sec into 50-200ohm) is on target and the stereo...
I used a lots of different Lyras, soundsmith, Ortofon, Clearaudio and so forth… But when I installed my first Koetsu - I was sold… Whaaoo.. what a magic sound in every way!
First I tried the Rosewood with 50 Ohms of loading on the direct tip from Dan D’Agostino.
Then I’ve been using the Vermillion, the Onyx and the BlueLace … I’m just floored by the magic sound from all of these juvels.
Currently I’m running the BlueLace as my workhorse on my Kuzma 4point 11”arm, sitting on my Ascona Neo turntable.
/ Jk
True as said?!!! With the Koetsu’s… you will be left in the sofa… You just want to hear another record… and then anotherAgree with your findings. When I was new in the analog scene, I was driven out of the room by my first MC, the Audio Technica 312. It was very nice at first, with lots of details and clarity but its brightness got into me. Then I had a Grado 8MR, didn't last long either. Then the Monster Alpha2, which had the same fatiguing character as the AT although had a lot of good traits here and there. Went to the Benz Carnegie 1 and it was kind of dull. Enter the Lyra modified Koetsu (nude and looked like the Lyras) and found it lean and lacking in musicality. Till I got a Black and it lasted me 8 years , which was replaced by a Rosewood Signature that lasted another 12 years. I never looked for another brand of cartridge after the Black. Some critics say the Koetsus roll off the highs and have bloated bass. Well, that didn't make me run out of the room.
/ Jk
Exactly, and not only for myself, the phenomenon repeated itself with so many of my customers in the past. One of them never heard a Koetsu, so he came to my house to listen to a Rose Sig. He ordered a Black and when I installed it, he was cursing left and right why he didn't buy it long ago. Then, he asked for a Rose Sig, and then a Urushi, all happened within a month. Pure bliss.
it sounds very dead compared to how it sounds with FR 64 or FR 66. This is after having tried with both 3012r and SME V
Thanks for the input. But, the choice to go for FR tonearms depends on the turntable used. Spring loaded suspension tables like Linn, Avid, Oracle cannot handle the weight of the FRs.
Yes SME is a better choice for suspended tables, but then he should find another cartridge, or find another table. Of the tables you listed, the VDH sounds glorious on Avid and SME V.
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So far, I've heard 2 Koetsus on 2 SMEs tonearms, one is using an SME 20 and the other an Avid Sequel. personally don't find any dullness in both, and both owners are very happy with them. To me, changing to another cartridge brand will move away from the Koetsu house sound.
well you like koetsu, I find them generally dull, and SME just makes it worse. If GoW wants to be disrespectful to other carts it should be pointed out that he has a worse cart poorly set up, he possibly got attracted by the retail sticker and myth
GoW isn't the only one who finds the Lyra as what he said, I have a friend who is an Etna 1 user who upgraded to the Etna 2 and finds the former bright and the latter , mellower. And just to add on my comments above, I had installed about 35 different Koetsus on practically 35 different arms. None of which are FRs. The arms ranged from my ET2, Graham Phantom, Dynavector, Koetsu's own tonearm, VPI, Clearaudio linear and unipivot, Rega RB300, Linn Akito, Ortofon, SMEs, etc, and I honestly have not heard any user saying that a certain tonearm made the Koetsu sound dull, and hence, poorly set up. And there are many users here in this thread who had posted their Koetsus with different tonearms as well. My impression is that they are all satisfied with what they have.
I myself have not liked any Lyra till the Atlas Lambda. vdh's are completely different from Lyras. And Ortofons from those two, plus the fact than an Ortofon SPU will suit a Koetsu user's taste much better than a Koetsu in many cases. Yes people often justify on forums what they have but that does not mean it is well set up, sonically good sounding, or they are in a position to judge.
Furthermore, with carts like vdh, DaVa, and Top Wing, and many others, it is pointless to buy overpriced poor sounding carts like Koetsu which charge massive amounts to rebuild. That pointless rebuild comment cost goes for Lyra and Zyx too, though I respect that Lyra allowed their users to get Lambda upgrade free, and I like the zyx sound. Users will be far better off getting better sounding cartridges at lower prices with low retip costs. Unfortunately forum hype and dealer network creates curiosity and myth for the unheard sticker prices.
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Let's just call the choice of any cartridges a matter of taste. As to the massive rebuild costs, Lyra also does the same procedure. One can imagine any tom dick and harry repairman with some microscope and tweezers repair only what is perceived as the damage, and charge a few hundred dollars for it. Really attractive to the user. But suppose there was physical trauma on the cartridge, and the cheap repairman just replaces the stylus that was gone. What about the alignment of the cantilever all the way in to the motor? He has to do a long and through job if he were to do that. And he must know the kind of work that companies like Koetsu and Lyra does. These 2 companies change all the parts of the cartridge and retain only the body. Because they want to make sure the internal alignment is perfect , as new. Suppose the stylus that was broken was actually a decades old Koetsu with a shot suspension. Then you get back a new non-Koetsu stylus and a still bad engine inside. That is what the user did not expect that with a $300 'retipping' job. And if it is really myth or hype, then Koetsu would not have a backlog of orders as I experienced with the a rebuild 3 months ago. A rebuild used to take 3-4 weeks tops, this time it took 12 weeks.
Matter of taste provided they have heard all the concerned suspects set up correctly
Further more on taste and why taste differs https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/atma-sphere-class-d-mono-blocks.34493/post-842156
I already included Lyra's overpriced rebuild in my post
Yes, Stig considers the late Sugano as his mentor. It' is documented in an article in Stereophile, but he doesn't want to 'copy' the sound of his master, he did his own piece. And I explained how the price , while expensive, has it's own justification. And I did not even mention the labor cost to strip the old cartridge. If they were making a new cartridge, all they had to do is to pick a body and put in the parts. In the rebuild, extra labor is made to strip and remove each part, some have glues, some have solder. It is a delicate thing to put back the parts and realign the motor and cantilever. If they test it and there is a problem, they have to take everything out and rebuild it again. That is what Stig told me in a very email regarding his rebuilding technique, explaining why the cost is so much.
Phil, I respect you a lot. The way you post. You are a gentleman. I am not. But I don't like the sound of a koetsu nor feel the price justified. So I will step out of this.
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