KR 242, Elrog 300, px4, px25, EML and KR 5u4g, and KR 274b

[wisnon]

thank you Norman. I knew I was missing something somewhere. I will consider the upgrades, maybe that time has come that there is a bit of a maturing moment in the forward march of changes. do you agree?

Totally agree, wink, wink! I sense a change in the FORCE. This is a great inflection point and I stress, superclock is a MUST. The only argument there is if it helps DSD more than PCM. I have 2 pals disagreeing which improved more. Total first world problem. LoL

 

[Audiocrack]

I had a friend over last night who I trust 100% when it comes to critical listening. Sorry if I remain a bit vague here. What I wanted to say is that he agreed with me that the anni KR 5u4g is more transparent, less veiled and dark and thus the better tube in my system than the Takatsuki. Not bad at all for 1/3 of the price.

Amd wonder oh wonder no sizzling on the KR last night. Hifi is so full of surprises -)

Your friend with the 'golder ears' is visiting me at the moment and inter alia listened to the Golden Gate in my Tidal LA set up. Yesterday we found no time to insert the Tak recti (that I ordered through Woo Audio) due to a very, very hectic audio schedule. Maybe/hopefully we can do this today. However, he needs to focus on other more important audio issues first.

 

[bonzo75]

Selling my Elrog 300b pair for 700 Euro, which is what I bought it for, if anyone wants to buy. Postage additional. Hardly used except to test (I don't have speakers right now anyway). Bought it off Khonfused who hardly played it either, and it still has warranty till Dec. Barely 100 hours, I guess, and playing fine. Selling because I just received my special Lampi 45s, and already have a PX4 on order, also have a 242. Best 300bs I have heard.

 

[Audiocrack]

Well, I do not tell you guys any news but the Tak recti is much, much better than the EL recti I had been using till today. The Tidal LA's show without any mercy the huge difference between the two; the latter sounds 'synthetic' in comparison to the former. The tak recti is a (much more) natural sounding tube. The quality difference between the two is much larger than I had expected and ( Knonfused and) my visitor agreed on the superiority of the Tak recti in my system wholeheartedly.

 

[bonzo75]

Are you referring to the EML recti when you say EL? I thought khonfused was referring to the comparison with KR, which we have found to be much better than the EML?

 

[Audiocrack]

Are you referring to the EML recti when you say EL? I thought khonfused was referring to the comparison with KR, which we have going to be much better than the EML?

Yes, I am referring to the Emission Labs recti; unlike Khonfused I do not have the Kron recti available. The differences between the EML and Tak recti are night and day.

 

[wisnon]

That is what AL says too. Only the WE vintage 274b is the Taks equal.

 

[bonzo75]

So we heard at Bill's, with SS analog domain integrated and focal Maestro utopias, a different set up from the high efficiency horn loaded SET set ups we had compared the valves on.

The px25 and px4 were nearly equal, with px25 having a bit larger soundstage and leading edge that when compared gave the px25 the edge, but without comparison would have kept anyone happy.

The special Lampi 45s were tonally the best and my choice for most music except that they had less details on tuttis compared to the others. The PXs are also superb on cellos, but the 45 really stand out on all other instruments. These were brand new and not broken in

The baritone vocal was the best on the 45, while Sullaria was better on the px25.

101d replicas were still the most dynamic and cleanest, but tonally the least equal. The others also had a deeper soundstage, but on piano and solo, the notes really slammed and leapt out with the 101ds.

Both of us found that both 300bs, KR and Elrog, were not to our tastes. These are excellent 300 bs however.

All compares were done with KR 5u4g which turned out to be the best all round recti, with KR 274b giving the bit more required edge on special 45s. The EML was relatively too laid back and slow, though on other systems it did give a bit of air due to the mesh plate.

Oh yes, and like an idiot, I forgot to take the 242, but both of us are quite sure if it doesn't distort or sound too hard, it will win easily. I will post it to Bill next week.

 

[bonzo75]

To summarize, not much change in findings, more of a confirmation.

 

[Audiocrack]

That is what AL says too. Only the WE vintage 274b is the Taks equal.

The audio insider with incredible good ears that helped me out with the electrical overhaul always preferred my Zanden combo to the Lampi GG. Actually he was so impressed with my Zanden combo that he would love to buy it from me. The Tak recti took the GG to such new levels - from the very first moment, that is without being played in at all - that I asked him if he still prefers the Zanden combo to the Lampi GG. His abswer was a very clear "no". I guess Al was right: these recti valves have a huge impact on the sound quality and might be more important than the two 'power tubes' (although I have not tested this yet).

 

[bonzo75]

AC, it will go up much more with output tubes as well. Consistently across the systems people with varied tastes chose the EML recti as well as well as the 300bs to be their least preferred. Changing both is the key.

 

[Sablon Audio]

I guess Al was right: these recti valves have a huge impact on the sound quality and might be more important than the two 'power tubes' (although I have not tested this yet).

If you like what the rectifier rolling is doing, then also try a top notch fuse like an SR Black. All the lampi dac models I have had over the past several years have been extremely responsive to clean power supply. In a similar vein, an unpowered usb cable is also very worthwhile.

 

[Audiocrack]

AC, it will go up much more with output tubes as well. Consistently across the systems people with varied tastes chose the EML recti as well as well as the 300bs to be their least preferred. Changing both is the key.

Thanks Bonzo, I fully believe you. That said, at the 'peak moments' (everything needs to settle after all the changes in the last two days) the LA system with Kondo 300b amplification sounds utterly beautiful as well as very convincing indeed with the Elrog 300b tubes. Have not tried the Mesh anniversary yet but please keep in mind that the LA's are utterly transparent transducers: if the Elrog 300b valves were not top performers I would definately have noticed it. But in due time I will insert the Mesh anniversary valves and will find out if my experience with the LA system concurs with yours/Bill's and other people findings.

 

[Audiocrack]

If you like what the rectifier rolling is doing, then also try a top notch fuse like an SR Black. All the lampi dac models I have had over the past several years have been extremely responsive to clean power supply. In a similar vein, an unpowered usb cable is also very worthwhile.

Thanks for your advice. I installed a few months ago a top notch fuse into the GG and the benefits are indeed clearly noticeble and important. Using two top of the bill silver usb cables coming from the 'same house' as the Tidal pc's I am using in the LA system at the moment. These usb cables are not yet commercially available but are by far the best usb cables I have heard so far. And you are right: different/better quality usb cables matter a lot!

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks Bonzo, I fully believe you. That said, at the 'peak moments' (everything needs to settle after all the changes in the last two days) the LA system with Kondo 300b amplification sounds utterly beautiful as well as very convincing indeed with the Elrog 300b tubes. Have not tried the Mesh anniversary yet but please keep in mind that the LA's are utterly transparent transducers: if the Elrog 300b valves were not top performers I would definately have noticed it. But in due time I will insert the Mesh anniversary valves and will find out if my experience with the LA system concurs with yours/Bill's and other people findings.

The thing is we played cheap 2a3 and thought that was as good as it got. Then we heard the 101d replicas and thought it as good as it got. Then we heard many other valves. In the absence of comparing, no one can realize what they are missing, irrespective of how good the rest of the system is. We have compared all main contenders out there now except the Tak and the original 274b (though I have done the 422a). The UK distro has many others. I can guarantee you the KR PXs and the Lampi 45s will be much better. I don't know how sensitive you are to noise (I am not, Bill is), but the Lampi 45s have an electrical hum at 50 Hz which he kept pointing out to me, and which didn't bother me though I heard it when pointed out

 

[wisnon]

The audio insider with incredible good ears that helped me out with the electrical overhaul always preferred my Zanden combo to the Lampi GG. Actually he was so impressed with my Zanden combo that he would love to buy it from me. The Tak recti took the GG to such new levels - from the very first moment, that is without being played in at all - that I asked him if he still prefers the Zanden combo to the Lampi GG. His abswer was a very clear "no". I guess Al was right: these recti valves have a huge impact on the sound quality and might be more important than the two 'power tubes' (although I have not tested this yet).

Darn it! More confirmation for the expensive rectis!
I need to give AL a call for more updates. he has been busy recently.
I also need to pay a visit to the NLs to hear a certain system when it is fully optimised. Heheheh.

OH, and AC, at some point you need the superclock and FW update. I hear these take things to another level, even above tube changes. A word to the wise is sufficient...

 

[wisnon]

If you like what the rectifier rolling is doing, then also try a top notch fuse like an SR Black. All the lampi dac models I have had over the past several years have been extremely responsive to clean power supply. In a similar vein, an unpowered usb cable is also very worthwhile.

I think AC has the RED, not the black. I had one too and lost it...LoL

I also hear GREAT things about the unpowered USB cable in the Lampi, but am yet to try it. I know you can simply over the right pins...

 

[bonzo75]

Yes I heard the clock at Bill's and the sound is much more open and has more resolution

 

[Sablon Audio]

Yes I heard the clock at Bill's and the sound is much more open and has more resolution

You also likely heard it driven by his aries with the latest firmware and my unpowered usb cable - more than one factor at play here

 

[Sablon Audio]

I think AC has the RED, not the black. I had one too and lost it...LoL

I also hear GREAT things about the unpowered USB cable in the Lampi, but am yet to try it. I know you can simply over the right pins...

Oh in that case the Black is quite an uptick over the red. For the usb, you can also lift the power wire from the usb input.