Low cost Natural sound systems from YouTube

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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That's because you and Brad are thinking only from a horn driver point of view. If tone is there in a recording, it can be got back in...part of the reason I think that video does not have right tone is recording and electronics. All he needs to do is play a good recording and add a good phono - he is anti-valve though and he tries to create a Spectral sort of sound with his own electronics which is not working for him at the moment, imo.

Firstly I am not thinking of horns or horn drivers. This applies to any situation.

Secondly if tone is there in the recording, poor speakers can and will lose it.

A good hifi system is for sure crap in crap out - I agree on that. But if you put great in, you don’t necessarily get great out. The transducers themselves are highly influential of system tone. This is one of the reasons that many people spend endless sums of money chasing their tail trying to make their speakers something they just can’t be.
 

bonzo75

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That's an interesting idea. I agree that tone is paramount. I always thought of it as first being captured on the recording, then assembling a system that does as little as possible to corrupt it, and finally, setting the system up optimally in the room to make it come alive for the listener. Frequency extension, scale, resolution, these can all come from different approaches and budgets, but capturing tone and then doing no harm, is the key IMO. Perhaps the transducers, cartridge and speakers, matter the most in the "do no harm" part. That may be why there seem to be so many different examples of systems with great tone.

Nice videos, Kedar. I like the Lowthers. I'd like to hear something like Carmina Burana, O Fortuna in one of these videos, or Holst's Jupiter. Something a bit more complex on these wonderful systems.

Thanks.

Extremely few systems can do both large scale and small scale well. For that, you either needs loads of budget with great room, or you need to have some compromises. Many people who think their systems do large scale, achieve separation and detail and macro dynamics at the cost of tone, timbre, flow, harmonics.

To do both excellent is difficult. Many try for one system and one table that can achieve everything. Usually they don't and whether high budget or low budget, it usually is a compromise on one side or the other. I remember once discussing with Mik that the issue I have with this table is X, and with that table is Y, etc etc...he started laughing - he said all tables have some issue or the other...so you just buy them all and balance it out. People think at 5k, then 10k, then 20k, then 100k, they will get a perfect table...it is always a compromise.

But still, I think to get chamber, small scale classical, vocals, and jazz sound excellent, a lot can be achieved at much lower cost with a simple TD 124 level TT. That is what these videos show. I have heard large orchestra and rock on a Tannoy. It is good. Can it be beaten by spending a lot more, yes, but for rock, it was actually the best system I heard after MIke's. We heard rock and blues on a Tannoy 15 inch gold for 8 hours with zero fatigue. You won't get loads of separation and detail and concert hall space on it for large orchestra, but still it is quite good.

Also the lowther audiovector in that video seems pretty good it is not playing simple music
 
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PeterA

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Kedar, I'm only curious to hear how larger scale music comes across. I have no expectations, one way or the other. If it fails with that, I want to see if I can hear how it fails so as to better understand the compromises you are describing. For those of us who don't or can't get around the way you do, these videos are interesting, if not the last word, certainly. Do you have any such video or do you not bother making the recordings?
 
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bonzo75

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Kedar, I'm only curious to hear how larger scale music comes across. I have no expectations, one way or the other. If it fails with that, I want to see if I can hear how it fails so as to better understand the compromises you are describing. For those of us who don't or can't get around the way you do, these videos are interesting, if not the last word, certainly. Do you have any such video or do you not bother making the recordings?

Hi I haven't heard the systems in the above video. These are from the channel of a guy named pimpamusic (mentioned in the OP) that the General put Bill and me on to. Bill again reminded me of that a few days ago and I started going through related videos and got hooked.

So I can't comment on large orchestral on these particular systems. Of those, the only speaker I have heard similar to is the tannoy in that video. But yes I will do some Altec and cheaper sensitive DIY systems and record some videos.
 

RogerD

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Who ever posts a video don’t feel bad about the comments.:) I like to post mine for better or worse. It’s digital so I’m DOA to begin with. Btw I’m under what some pay for cables so it’s low cost.....
 

morricab

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That's because you and Brad are thinking only from a horn driver point of view. If tone is there in a recording, it can be got back in...part of the reason I think that video does not have right tone is recording and electronics. All he needs to do is play a good recording and add a good phono - he is anti-valve though and he tries to create a Spectral sort of sound with his own electronics which is not working for him at the moment, imo.

No Ked, you are wrong...I am not at all thinking about a horn POV. I am thinking about a system POV. I have said from my earliest days on this forum that I think the electronics are more important for preserving natural, realistic sound than the speakers. This is because of the inherently unnatural pattern of distortion that non-mechanical parts of a system introduce. Horns are no better or worse at preserving tone, IMO, than other speaker types...it is other things that they are better at preserving...like dynamics.
 
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morricab

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Totally agree, Brad. In my horn build it is the foundation on which I am refusing to budge.
I wasn't referring specifically to the speakers but a neutral horn can for sure accurately preserve the tone captured on the recording.
 

bonzo75

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Also Peter, I was not initially making videos. I have just started. When I visited tang, the system I heard (and the carts), I was not able to relate to the videos of the carts he had initially posted with the Hilary Hahn stuff.

I was pretty much a non believer in videos. I then started liking what he was recently posting and started taking a couple in some other systems myself, more specifically the Avalon system I recently did a report on and the Munich high end show. I also did some clips at concerts and then tried listening to them later at home.

Imo videos can both help and not. They help get tone and flow and dynamic range in some systems. They sometimes don't get nuance, ease, room interactions, soundstage in some systems.

Sometimes they highlight negatives too much. While in reality for many systems at home it is about living with a compromise, and many compromises come out pretty harshly sometimes in a video as compared to in the room.

So I will be posting videos but where a video can substantiate what I have heard in the room and not what I didn't.

The danger of videos is people go only by what they hear in the video, and ignore what the guy is reporting, and make an incorrect assessment
 

RogerD

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Thanks.

Extremely few systems can do both large scale and small scale well. For that, you either needs loads of budget with great room, or you need to have some compromises. Many people who think their systems do large scale, achieve separation and detail and macro dynamics at the cost of tone, timbre, flow, harmonics.

To do both excellent is difficult. Many try for one system and one table that can achieve everything. Usually they don't and whether high budget or low budget, it usually is a compromise on one side or the other. I remember once discussing with Mik that the issue I have with this table is X, and with that table is Y, etc etc...he started laughing - he said all tables have some issue or the other...so you just buy them all and balance it out. People think at 5k, then 10k, then 20k, then 100k, they will get a perfect table...it is always a compromise.

But still, I think to get chamber, small scale classical, vocals, and jazz sound excellent, a lot can be achieved at much lower cost with a simple TD 124 level TT. That is what these videos show. I have heard large orchestra and rock on a Tannoy. It is good. Can it be beaten by spending a lot more, yes, but for rock, it was actually the best system I heard after MIke's. We heard rock and blues on a Tannoy 15 inch gold for 8 hours with zero fatigue. You won't get loads of separation and detail and concert hall space on it for large orchestra, but still it is quite good.

Also the lowther audiovector in that video seems pretty good it is not playing simple music
Those Rogers sound very good.. I think. Now on large scale I have no idea. For me I think the size of the soundstage,seperation,clarity,and power projected on large scale is important.
With small speakers with subwoofers you could make a good accounting. Easier with a larger system I think.
 

DexterMiller

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Jan 20, 2019
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The absolute, beginner way -I think- to decent sound would include going vintage and...to get: an early '70s, 30wpc Marantz 1060 integrated; slightly older Acoustic Research A.R. "2ax" speakers; a Teac A-2300S reel to reel; and, a Pioneer PL-112D TT (imo: the rock-bottom way with the only necessary basics to spin a record...without worrying about the idler condition or plinth materials such as a changer from that era would require investment in *above* the "price-of-admission" [toward a respectable, yet-budget setup]).
 

ddk

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This is @awsmone ' s Altec playing two violin pieces with good tone. I will let everyone guess what combo of valve and SS he is using.

I haven't asked him yet if I can post on here, but I am sure he won't mind, as I am giving him the Zero Distortion certificate for Low Cost high level Natural Sound achievement of 2019 (I got the inspiration to make up such stuff from Munich)



It's called a video, why is it so dark? There are a number of videos on WBF now with darkened rooms that one can't see anything in the video, you're posting low rez sound with a dark screen do you realize how boring that is guys? Video=Visual :D!

david
 

Tango

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Who ever posts a video don’t feel bad about the comments.:) I like to post mine for better or worse. It’s digital so I’m DOA to begin with. Btw I’m under what some pay for cables so it’s low cost.....
Hello RogerD. Which Perlman is this? It sounds really fun.
Rachmaninoff "The Bell" must sound wonderful in your system.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
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NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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Hello RogerD. Which Perlman is this? It sounds really fun.
Rachmaninoff "The Bell" must sound wonderful in your system.

Kind regards,
Tang

I too enjoyed listening to Roger's music spinning. That music fits my mojo.

Tang, it is that music composition from this music album recording:

Album Title: Cinema Serenade
By Itzhak Perlman and John Williams
Song chosen and played by Roger: Far and Away
 
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RogerD

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Hello RogerD. Which Perlman is this? It sounds really fun.
Rachmaninoff "The Bell" must sound wonderful in your system.

Kind regards,
Tang
Thanks Tang and Bob
Off the top of my head,I can't think of what movie theme this is. It's Tchaikovsky like to me.
The album is one of my favorites....well recorded and Itzhak and Williams are wonderful....highly recommended. Good taste and good listening.

It's from Far and Away....beautiful

https://www.amazon.com/Cinema-Serenade-Itzhak-Perlman-Williams/dp/B0000029W9
 
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Folsom

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I changed to the 60FPS setting and it didn't butcher it as bad. It was just a hunch that a higher rate of video might also translate to higher for sound.

 

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