Magico M9

[Al M.]

The scaffolding structure of Wilson Audio is not as rigid as carbon fibre monocoque of M9. Vibration is more severe in the midrange and treble units of XVX. This reduces the resolution.

Wow, reduction of resolution at that price point?

 

[TLi]

Wow, reduction of resolution at that price point?

This is a give and take situation.
In order to be able to allow for small corrections of time difference, midrange and treble drivers can move back and forth to get the best time alignment.
The rigidity, no doubt, is less than that of M9 when the whole cabinet is made in carbon fibre. When the mount of the drivers is vibrating, the resolution is reduced.
Each design has its pros and cons. No single design meets every requirement. If so, there is only one speaker design and not that many different makes.

 

[wgerman]

I have listened to both on several occasions. The immediate previous speaker of this M9 owner was Wilson Audio XVX.

I can say their presentations are quite different. XVX is more dynamic and soundstage is more open. M9 is more refined and carries more details. It can be due to the fact that one is a ported and the other is a sealed box design. It is like transistor vs tube amps, each has its supporters.

The scaffolding structure of Wilson Audio is not as rigid as carbon fibre monocoque of M9. Vibration is more severe in the midrange and treble units of XVX. This reduces the resolution. But the time domain correction gives a more accurate soundstage. There are two sides of every coin. View attachment 106023

Thank you, I too have wondered if the gantry system on the Wilson would be a source of vibrations. One would think their meter that measures vibrations would register that.

 

[wgerman]

This is a give and take situation.
In order to be able to allow for small corrections of time difference, midrange and treble drivers can move back and forth to get the best time alignment.
The rigidity, no doubt, is less than that of M9 when the whole cabinet is made in carbon fibre. When the mount of the drivers is vibrating, the resolution is reduced.
Which design has its pros and cons. No single design meets every requirement. If so, there is only one speaker design and not that many different makes.

You are right about the trade offs, the Wilsons have a narrower baffle so it should sound more open. The M9s may be a rock of Gibraltar vibration wise but that wider baffle will still effect soundstage no matter how beautiful the radii.

Look forward to seeing the tech and design filter down to the lower lines.

Thanks again for giving us a comparison, sadly something we would never read in Absolute or Stereophile.

 

[Elliot G.]

I have listened to both on several occasions. The immediate previous speaker of this M9 owner was Wilson Audio XVX.

I can say their presentations are quite different. XVX is more dynamic and soundstage is more open. M9 is more refined and carries more details. It can be due to the fact that one is a ported and the other is a sealed box design. It is like transistor vs tube amps, each has its supporters.

The scaffolding structure of Wilson Audio is not as rigid as carbon fibre monocoque of M9. Vibration is more severe in the midrange and treble units of XVX. This reduces the resolution. But the time domain correction gives a more accurate soundstage. There are two sides of every coin. View attachment 106023

Are you saying that the two systems are very different sounding? When you listen to a piano which one sounds real? a solo violin? a human voice? One would think that that two serious systems should have much more in common than different with subtle diiferences in perhaps presentation or dynamics.
I have only listened to the XVX with subs but have not experienced the M9. Your comments leave me with many questions.

 

[MadFloyd]

Very interesting to read this. It sounds very plausible to me.

 

[MadFloyd]

One aspect of performance of my Magicos that I wish was better was soundstaging. I have heard Wilsons do this well.

 

[Al M.]

This is a give and take situation.
In order to be able to allow for small corrections of time difference, midrange and treble drivers can move back and forth to get the best time alignment.
The rigidity, no doubt, is less than that of M9 when the whole cabinet is made in carbon fibre. When the mount of the drivers is vibrating, the resolution is reduced.
Each design has its pros and cons. No single design meets every requirement. If so, there is only one speaker design and not that many different makes.

Thanks for your reply. I am sorry, but if I would have to spend so much money for a speaker, it better not have too many compromises. Loss of detail resolution would be unacceptable to me at that price point.

I would probably not want to live with rather significant soundstage compromises either, if that's the drawback of the Magico M9.

I'm already painfully aware about compromises in my system, at my price point. No interest having to do that at mega dollars, at least not to a major extent, if I could afford such a system.

 

[Rhapsody]

One aspect of performance of my Magicos that I wish was better was soundstaging. I have heard Wilsons do this well.

My experience is that imaging has a lot to do with speaker set up and the overall room situation

I have heard Magico systems with incredible imaging and then I have heard some with so-so imaging.

 

[Al M.]

Thanks again for giving us a comparison, sadly something we would never read in Absolute or Stereophile.

Yes, very valuable info.

 

[Elliot G.]

One aspect of performance of my Magicos that I wish was better was soundstaging. I have heard Wilsons do this well.

Are you referring to image width? The room that the speakers are placed in ( for both speakers) seems very narrow and the speakers are extremely close to the side walls, all of this will definetly effect image width. I am certainly not saying that one brand maybe better at it than the other however for two very large speaker systems I persoanlly would prefer a wider space. I have a smaller and larger speaker availble to me in my room and it is much easier to get bigger image width with the smaller product in the room with its dimensions. This is not an indication of quality but rather the right tool for the job in the application. IMHO a speaker of that size need more room.

 

[wgerman]

Thanks for your reply. I am sorry, but if I would have to spend so much money for a speaker, it better not have too many compromises. Loss of detail resolution would be unacceptable to me at that price point.

I would probably not want to live with rather significant soundstage compromises either, if that's the drawback of the Magico M9.

I'm already painfully aware about compromises in my system, at my price point. No interest having to do that at mega dollars, at least not to a major extent, if I could afford such a system.

Keep in mind we are talking about two uber speakers in comparison to each other. Heard by themselves compared to what most of us have at home would leave most of us speechless (if properly setup).

 

[Elliot G.]

My experience is that imaging has a lot to do with speaker set up and the overall room situation

I totally agree it has everything to do with that!

 

[MadFloyd]

Are you referring to image width? The room that the speakers are placed in ( for both speakers) seems very narrow and the speakers are extremely close to the side walls, all of this will definetly effect image width. I am certainly not saying that one brand maybe better at it than the other however for two very large speaker systems I persoanlly would prefer a wider space. I have a smaller and larger speaker availble to me in my room and it is much easier to get bigger image width with the smaller product in the room with its dimensions. This is not an indication of quality but rather the right tool for the job in the application. IMHO a speaker of that size need more room.

Elliot, I assume you're referring to the M9 positioning (in the photo) and not my room. But I was not just referring to soundstage width but depth & layering.

I totally agree that speakers too close to the sidewalls will be impacted in a negative way (and my own experiments confirm this). In fact, Magico has some placement guidelines that have the speakers much further away from sidewalls than you would expect.

 

[Al M.]

Are you referring to image width? The room that the speakers are placed in ( for both speakers) seems very narrow and the speakers are extremely close to the side walls, all of this will definetly effect image width. I am certainly not saying that one brand maybe better at it than the other however for two very large speaker systems I persoanlly would prefer a wider space. I have a smaller and larger speaker availble to me in my room and it is much easier to get bigger image width with the smaller product in the room with its dimensions. This is not an indication of quality but rather the right tool for the job in the application. IMHO a speaker of that size need more room.

Totally makes sense, thanks.

 

[MadFloyd]

Keep in mind we are talking about two uber speakers in comparison to each other. Heard by themselves compared to what most of us have at home would leave most of us speechless (if properly setup).

I'm sure the Wilsons have plenty of resolution. Just because one speaker has more resolution than another doesn't necessarily mean that latter is lacking (adequate) resolution.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, I assume you're referring to the M9 positioning (in the photo) and not my room. But I was not just referring to soundstage width but depth & layering.

I totally agree that speakers too close to the sidewalls will be impacted in a negative way (and my own experiments confirm this). In fact, Magico has some placement guidelines that have the speakers much further away from sidewalls than you would expect.

Yes I am referring to the picture here. IMO this room is far from the perfect size for a speaker of that caliber and size. Although I have not heard it , and certainly am making no judgements on its abilities, putting a speaker that close to the side wall, especially one with those type of drive units, is certainly challenging the ability to make it sound at its best. Placement of instruments and players in space ( imaging) and the ability to discern the space between and behind ( depth) is going to be hindered dramatically by the placement of the speakers in the room and the acoustics of the room itself. The image width (soundstage) is going to be directly impacted by the wall and the reflections that occur from being near it.
The proper room size matching with the proper size speaker will bring much better consistant results than trying to put the wrong size in the wrong space.

 

[dcathro]

Yes I am referring to the picture here. IMO this room is far from the perfect size for a speaker of that caliber and size. Although I have not heard it , and certainly am making no judgements on its abilities, putting a speaker that close to the side wall, especially one with those type of drive units, is certainly challenging the ability to make it sound at its best. Placement of instruments and players in space ( imaging) and the ability to discern the space between and behind ( depth) is going to be hindered dramatically by the placement of the speakers in the room and the acoustics of the room itself. The image width (soundstage) is going to be directly impacted by the wall and the reflections that occur from being near it.
The proper room size matching with the proper size speaker will bring much better consistant results than trying to put the wrong size in the wrong space.

I think this is a little analogous to saying one should drive a Toyota rather than a Supercar because of speed limits and traffic density.

Some people just got to have the fastest thing out there.

 

[Elliot G.]

I think this is a little analogous to saying one should drive a Toyota rather than a Supercar because of speed limits and traffic density.

Some people just got to have the fastest thing out there.

Thats not really the point. If one is judging the difference between two world class cars ( to use your analogy) like a Porsche and a Ferrari one would think you would do this under the best possible conditions like a track not in city traffic or a mud bog.
I certainly cant tell anyone what they can buy, how much they can spend or what they should like. I am only stating what i know to work and what is the best choice for a positive outcome.
Would you use a toyota corrolla or a Ford F-150 to move bails of hay? Its choosing the right tool for the right purpose.

What seems to happen over and over on WBF and other places is argueing over the sound of improperly set up gear in average at best listening spaces trying to accertain the absolute truth. In these cases there is of course none.
One of my favorite quotes from Peter Green "searching for mysteries without any clues"

 

[Rhapsody]

My experience with selling large scale systems (Goldmund Epilogue, Goldmund Apologue, Avantgarde Trios/BHs, Magico M9s) is that there are gents on the planet, where $$$ is not an important variable in their overall equation. Although in the residence that they are dealt with that allows them to put in a top tier audio system there happens to be a room that is usually too small. They realize this. Most customers (20+) that I have sold these type speakers/systems to are really smart individuals. They understand all of the pros/cons before they make their decisions.

So then they have a choice of buying a smaller speaker that from an audiophiles perspective would be a better match for the room, would probably sound better and would be the correct course of action. OR they could buy a mega size system and stuff it in the room because that is what they decide to do and what makes them happy. These folks could care less if the guys on audio forums approve of their shenanigans, most of them don't even read audio forums. They just want those crazy cool speakers (to them) in their life.

A lot of time if they have too big of a speaker for a small room they just don't crank it up. A waste to many but not to them. They are happy to have the speakers that they love and they are totally aware of the limitations that go along with installing the speakers into the available space which they had avaiable.

I had one customer that I pleaded with that the speakers were WAY TOO BIG for his room. He looked at me and said, STUFF THEM IN THERE. Figure it out. I want them. So I did and he loved them.