Maybe it's better not to know

[morricab]

Even the XLF should make you sad . I really miss them, selling them was a stupid move.

Please don't put XLF in the same category as the Vox...simply apples to oranges.

If XLF makes you sad to leave then Vox would have you committing suicide.

 

[morricab]

We have exceptions - the best turntable of sixty years ago is still the best and will be best ten years from now ...

I am sure that in ten years a significant number of owners will be telling their SME30 turntables are the best.

Highly subjective statement that a 60 year old TT was best then and today (do you mean the EMT 927?). SME 30 was never the best TT and never will be.

 

[LL21]

Please don't put XLF in the same category as the Vox...simply apples to oranges.

If XLF makes you sad to leave then Vox would have you committing suicide.

From Roy Gregory this week:

"For me, the top tier is the exclusive preserve of Wilson’s WAMM Master Chronosonic and the Living Voice Vox Olympian/Vox Palladian ...possibly joined by Tidal’s La Assoluta .... Below that comes the second tier ... a group that includes the Wilson Alexx when paired with the Thor’s Hammer subs, Gryphon’s Kodo, the Rockport Arrakis (and quite possibly the new Lyra), the Tidal Akira, the Wilson Benesch Cardinal with a pair of Torus woofers and Focal’s Grande Utopia. ... Well, now we can add the Stenheim Reference Ultime to that group..."

 

[jeff1225]

The WE's are unfortunately a little too big for the décor unfortunately. WAF violation.

LOL....massive WAF violation!

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

I love hearing the best and am unconcerned by what’s the new best. I just thank every peak experience, lucky to have had a few and while I may return to a more modest system usually I find I get something from it.

I go to a mates house and hear something well beyond my budget but it’s pretty joyous to share music, be altered by a new awareness about what’s possible and sometimes get a new area of potential improvement as a takeaway.

I heard a few times a evolution acoustics MM3 based system with Ch precision, Soulution and so got the need to address the scale of the presentation and bass reach/control as a foundation for authority... and headroom, oh the freedom of a system when it scales up and doesn’t sound like it could ever be exhausted.

Or my mates Animas and OMAs. How natural, how effortless and that flow of consciouness. Such a very different best from the previously mentioned version of best.

So I get to share and celebrate and also never forget how it can be and then I’ll later do something within my own setup that buys just a bit more of some of these qualities and I’m ecstatic and aware that only by hearing the systems that are in many ways beyond my reach that I get a target to develop my own systems.

No harm in appreciation without ownership. Scaling the mountain of having it all, both sonic perfections and complete musicality its nice to grab peak at the complete view. So what if the sounds aren’t perfect though. It’s only when setups aren’t musically engaging that I feel nothing at all though.

This pretty much sums it up for me and am most gracious to the hospitality extended to me and the friendships gained. In the end it really is all about the music. Mike and I are in the same line of business and when we meet for some listening the conversation usually will start with, "How's the J O B?" "Busy as hell" "Check out this latest tweak/purchase/recording" and were off for a few hours of music.

Then I go home and one of two things happen. I either shut my rig off for a couple weeks out of disappointment, or my room gets rearranged. Actually after my last visit I crated up my two channel and moved my turntable out to my MC system in the main room of my home while I sort out my 2 channel thoughts.

 

[DaveyF]

Highly subjective statement that a 60 year old TT was best then and today (do you mean the EMT 927?). SME 30 was never the best TT and never will be.

+1

 

[Al M.]

I love hearing the best and am unconcerned by what’s the new best. I just thank every peak experience, lucky to have had a few and while I may return to a more modest system usually I find I get something from it.

I go to a mates house and hear something well beyond my budget but it’s pretty joyous to share music, be altered by a new awareness about what’s possible and sometimes get a new area of potential improvement as a takeaway.

I heard a few times a evolution acoustics MM3 based system with Ch precision, Soulution and so got the need to address the scale of the presentation and bass reach/control as a foundation for authority... and headroom, oh the freedom of a system when it scales up and doesn’t sound like it could ever be exhausted.

Or my mates Animas and OMAs. How natural, how effortless and that flow of consciouness. Such a very different best from the previously mentioned version of best.

So I get to share and celebrate and also never forget how it can be and then I’ll later do something within my own setup that buys just a bit more of some of these qualities and I’m ecstatic and aware that only by hearing the systems that are in many ways beyond my reach that I get a target to develop my own systems.

No harm in appreciation without ownership. Scaling the mountain of having it all, both sonic perfections and complete musicality its nice to grab peak at the complete view. So what if the sounds aren’t perfect though. It’s only when setups aren’t musically engaging that I feel nothing at all though.

Excellent post, Graham.

I have similar experiences, hearing the much more expensive systems of my friends (I don't care about sound at shows which, with a few exceptions, typically falls short). Without having heard what is possible, I would never have attained the sound quality I have now. Can I live with the limitations of my system, knowing that even better is possible? You bet! I am ecstatic about what I have, which for a lot of music, even though not all, reaches very high indeed.

 

[microstrip]

Highly subjective statement that a 60 year old TT was best then and today (do you mean the EMT 927?). SME 30 was never the best TT and never will be.

Please re-read the original post and my signature - there was a smile in the first statement and the second referred to a significant number of owners. And surely it is a subjective post .

Should I write in my signature that I say every time that the best does not exist in high-end?

We have exceptions - the best turntable of sixty years ago is still the best and will be best ten years from now ...

I am sure that in ten years a significant number of owners will be telling their SME30 turntables are the best.

 

[Al M.]

I personally think all knowledge is good. Personally, I'm hardly ever bothered by what's new or what may be better than what I have because the bulk of my energy goes towards learning about what I already have and how I can optimize these pieces to fit my own requirements.

I do wish that people would be a little braver with their gear. I don't mean opening up and modding them unless of course one actually knows how to do this without doing more harm than good. I mean experimenting with set up on one's own time. A good way to jumpstart this would be to get someone experienced to help and then observe keenly. Heck ask as many questions as you can to get a handle on the causes and effects of things. One can always mark or note the experts settings so one can go back to these but by all means play away. I believe that it is only by going through this process that anybody can definitively understand the limits of his or her system, what it can do but maybe more importantly, what it can't. Gotta know what limitations you can live with and what you can't. For analog for example there has got to be a feature in there that keeps my records flat and do so easily. If it doesn't I'm just not interested. To me it is a fundamental requirement that the cart runs on the best road possible. Sadly this knocks a lot of erstwhile great products off my list but fortunately vintage or new there are options be it as far left of field as the massive counterweight, concave platter Teragakis from the past to current offerings. When I do hit the wall, as I did not getting the performance I wanted out of LP playback with tables that couldn't keep my records as flat as I'd like with ease, then it was certainly a benefit to me to have an idea of what to look elsewhere for. I already knew that the cause for the groove noise, the inconsistency of transients and in extreme cases audible wow and flutter was caused by warpage and the analog system not sufficiently dealing with it. I knew because I pretty much traced everything back to that fundamental by trying practically everything else. In all instances, every change I've made has been based expanding on the performance envelope and then going through the process of refining and tailoring the sound to my satisfaction. It's no surprise then that I personally use equipment that has high degrees of adjustability while I carry products that are devoid of much adjustments. The latter all fall within what I call happy medians. Like the majority of gear they can be lived with happily for ever after for as long as the demands are not as exacting on the part of the listener. The vast majority of audiophiles fall into this category and indeed the inndustry survives by servicing these customers by artfully and carefully crafting respective house sounds intentionally as is the case for some or unintentionally in the case of those that follow a singular design vision. .

I think that since we are already invested in our equipment that it would be very wasteful not to try to get the best out of them before casting covetous glances. One of the upsides of being in the high-end space is that it is very easy even for an ordinary customer to get in touch with the designers and manufacturers for advice instead of getting a service ticket or a 1-800 number if at all.

Just to prove my point, we can have the same gear in the same room and I will wager that given two listeners with different tastes, the same system can be set up to be enjoyable to both separately before spending another cent.

Great post, Jack.

Yes, trying to get the most out of what you already have is the ticket. My current system now performs at a much higher level than before my most recent acoustic improvements, which cost me nothing compared to the price of my system. They only cost me time and research which paid off plentifold. Optimizing speaker setup played its part as well.

 

[microstrip]

Please don't put XLF in the same category as the Vox...simply apples to oranges.

If XLF makes you sad to leave then Vox would have you committing suicide.

Christian owns Wilson X2 and his original post referred to his speakers. It was a family reference ...

 

[ddk]

Please re-read the original post and my signature - there was a smile in the first statement and the second referred to a significant number of owners. And surely it is a subjective post .

Should I write in my signature that I say every time that the best does not exist in high-end?

Actually I disagree with this statement, there are superior products and inferior ones and certainly there are best ones in every category. Frankly the mass appeasement mindset is retarded.

david

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Actually I disagree with this statement, there are superior products and inferior ones and certainly there are best ones in every category. Frankly the mass appeasement mindset is retarded.

david

As an absolutist how could you say different? There are certainly favorites among like minded people.

The rub being the like minded part.

Not to say consensus is not possible, just rare.

 

[microstrip]

Actually I disagree with this statement, there are superior products and inferior ones and certainly there are best ones in every category. Frankly the mass appeasement mindset is retarded.

david

"The best" is not the "best ones". There is a large difference between saying that something is the best or saying it it belongs to a group that can be considered the best of a category.

 

[ddk]

As an absolutist how could you say different?

Don’t really know what you mean by absolutist in this context but to claim that everything’s built or performs on the same level is absurd and if anything Mike the degree that you tweak things that title absolutely belongs to you!
david

david

 

[the sound of Tao]

This pretty much sums it up for me and am most gracious to the hospitality extended to me and the friendships gained. In the end it really is all about the music. Mike and I are in the same line of business and when we meet for some listening the conversation usually will start with, "How's the J O B?" "Busy as hell" "Check out this latest tweak/purchase/recording" and were off for a few hours of music.

Then I go home and one of two things happen. I either shut my rig off for a couple weeks out of disappointment, or my room gets rearranged. Actually after my last visit I crated up my two channel and moved my turntable out to my MC system in the main room of my home while I sort out my 2 channel thoughts.

Yes, the topic of what is best mostly just leads to some kind of disparity and disconnect whereas sharing music usually leads to connection and in unity. It is always music that ultimately brings us together. I would imagine Mike’s system would be kind of illuminating but it is in the experience of the music in his room that would be the essence of that illumination.

 

[ddk]

"The best" is not the "best ones". There is a large difference between saying that something is the best or saying it it belongs to a group that can be considered the best of a category.

The difference between “can” and “is” depends on the products in the category, both can be true.

david

 

[the sound of Tao]

Great post, Jack.

Yes, trying to get the most out of what you already have is the ticket. My current system now performs at a much higher level than before my most recent acoustic improvements, which cost me nothing compared to the price of my system. They only cost me time and research which paid off plentifold. Optimizing speaker setup played its part as well.

Al,
+1 on what you said and also Jack’s earlier posting. For me best is also the best I can do.

It’s a complete buzz to learn something from someone else’s experience. To apply it in some way within your own system and just enjoy getting somewhere with this. Then every time you play something and get more immersed it’s just an ongoing reward. I love that notion that we are all just standing on the shoulders of all that have gone before.

Half the fun is getting speakers absolutely dialled to the room. Another mate who imports Magnepans here was my mentor in the very value of every exactness in this.

 

[RogerD]

I doubt any two systems sound the same,to many variables. But is the system optimized? I have heard people say about my system..there must be a synergy involved. I no longer worry about this and that,as I would no longer spend large sums on audio equipment except maybe a Studer J37 I do enjoy reading what everybody is doing though.

 

[morricab]

This pretty much sums it up for me and am most gracious to the hospitality extended to me and the friendships gained. In the end it really is all about the music. Mike and I are in the same line of business and when we meet for some listening the conversation usually will start with, "How's the J O B?" "Busy as hell" "Check out this latest tweak/purchase/recording" and were off for a few hours of music.

Then I go home and one of two things happen. I either shut my rig off for a couple weeks out of disappointment, or my room gets rearranged. Actually after my last visit I crated up my two channel and moved my turntable out to my MC system in the main room of my home while I sort out my 2 channel thoughts.

I feel a bit bad for you that you can't seem to get a sound you are happy with.

 

[morricab]

From Roy Gregory this week:

"For me, the top tier is the exclusive preserve of Wilson’s WAMM Master Chronosonic and the Living Voice Vox Olympian/Vox Palladian ...possibly joined by Tidal’s La Assoluta .... Below that comes the second tier ... a group that includes the Wilson Alexx when paired with the Thor’s Hammer subs, Gryphon’s Kodo, the Rockport Arrakis (and quite possibly the new Lyra), the Tidal Akira, the Wilson Benesch Cardinal with a pair of Torus woofers and Focal’s Grande Utopia. ... Well, now we can add the Stenheim Reference Ultime to that group..."

I wouldn't agree with most of that list...