Network Improvements and their Impact on Sound Quality

[octaviars]

If the edge router after the Verizon router is not giving me a separate network, what is it doing differently then the Sonore optical module would do?
Does anyone have experience or a guess on which one would be better the edge router or the 0M?

If you want seperate networks you would need to do a seperate VLAN so the network for the audio is on a seperate subnet. With the Edge Router you can have multiple DHCP servers runing different subnets and decide what LAN ports on the router to be on that subnet.

I have tried to run the SFP port on the Edge router to my etherREGEN as a seperate subnet and with a seperate DHCP server and that was no problem my NUC with Roon ROCK and dCS Network bridge was on this subnet. My Roon app would not find the Core as my wifi is on the main net but as it is possible to tell Roon app what IP adress to look for the Core is found that way.

I did not get Qobuz to work in Roon when it is on the subnet so I gave up on it (perhaps it is me not having the knowledge to do it right) so for now I run everything on the main net.

 

[drjimwillie]

I removed the Apple TV from the EtherRegen and put it on the netgear switch.
I still had the slightly better dynamics and micro detail, from the increase in bandwidth from paralleling the new ethernet cable with the coax . But, this time rather than rhythms coming from many places at once, they were more of a cohesive hole. More like music.

 

[Blackmorec]

I removed the Apple TV from the EtherRegen and put it on the netgear switch.
I still had the slightly better dynamics and micro detail, from the increase in bandwidth from paralleling the new ethernet cable with the coax . But, this time rather than rhythms coming from many places at once, they were more of a cohesive hole. More like music.

This is similar to what i have reported about imaging and ‘soundscape’. Instead of images coming from a variety of positions of varying latitude and depth, they are now placed at varying positions in a ‘holistic’ soundscape of the recording venue. In other words you hear the venue and all the instruments within it in a most convincing, ‘like live’ manner. As I’ve said many times, these improvements no longer fit the typical hi-fi adjectives for describing performance and its better now to discuss listener reaction and the system’s ability to create a very convincing portrayal of reality. When you achieve a major improvement that makes you wonder how SQ could possibly get any better, this is how.

 

[heebrog]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

I have been wondering why adding multiple switches/FMC's, audiophile or not seems to improve the sound quality of streaming and stumbled on this article by John Swenson of EtherRegen/opticalModule fame.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55217-sonore-opticalrendu/?do=findComment&comment=963599

In it, he talks about leakage currents but in the second half he address "clock phase noise" and discuss the "fingerprint" left by a clock with poor phase noise.

He goes on to describe how multiple "re-clocking" with switches/FMC's with better phase noise characteristics some how ameliorates the bad "fingerprint".

That makes some sense to me and possibly justifies EdgeRouter/oM/EtherRegen/x2SoTM/JCatGold (or any combination of this) ethernet path to a server.

As with all things, there will be a point of diminishing returns.

@Rhapsody

I understand adding the EdgeRouter made a huge difference in your setup.
There must be some merit in your "off-loading" of network traffic explanation as I can't imagine this is a device with audiophile quality clock.
Can someone explain why a simple switch in this location would be better than a FMC eg. Sonore oM if the only downstream component is the server or in your case a JCAT Gold > Extreme.

Cheers,

Geoff

 

[Rhapsody]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

I have been wondering why adding multiple switches/FMC's, audiophile or not seems to improve the sound quality of streaming and stumbled on this article by John Swenson of EtherRegen/opticalModule fame.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55217-sonore-opticalrendu/?do=findComment&comment=963599

In it, he talks about leakage currents but in the second half he address "clock phase noise" and discuss the "fingerprint" left by a clock with poor phase noise.

He goes on to describe how multiple "re-clocking" with switches/FMC's with better phase noise characteristics some how ameliorates the bad "fingerprint".

That makes some sense to me and possibly justifies EdgeRouter/oM/EtherRegen/x2SoTM/JCatGold (or any combination of this) ethernet path to a server.

As with all things, there will be a point of diminishing returns.

@Rhapsody

I understand adding the EdgeRouter made a huge difference in your setup.
There must be some merit in your "off-loading" of network traffic explanation as I can't imagine this is a device with audiophile quality clock.
Can someone explain why a simple switch in this location would be better than a FMC eg. Sonore oM if the only downstream component is the server or in your case a JCAT Gold > Extreme.

Cheers,

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

There is only one rule for me. Try it, listen and observe the results.

Keep safe, be well.

 

[Superdad]

I have been wondering why adding multiple switches/FMC's, audiophile or not seems to improve the sound quality of streaming and stumbled on this article by John Swenson of EtherRegen/opticalModule fame.

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55217-sonore-opticalrendu/?do=findComment&comment=963599
In it, he talks about leakage currents but in the second half he address "clock phase noise" and discuss the "fingerprint" left by a clock with poor phase noise.

He goes on to describe how multiple "re-clocking" with switches/FMC's with better phase noise characteristics some how ameliorates the bad "fingerprint".

Hi Geoff:
Well I assume you have read our "white paper" about all this. Explains a lot more of the "why" of it.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

 

[Superdad]

There is only one rule for me. Try it, listen and observe the results.

Indeed. So perhaps I ought to send you an EtherREGEN to try Bob!
(BTW, I think we have several mutual friends/clients.)

Best of health to you there in NYC. My heart bleeds for the tragedy there (where I was born and still have numerous relatives).

 

[Samsoum]

After many help from nenon,and many advises thru the extreme thread,today i finished finalizing my network clean up.
modem(ifi12)_copper_edgerouter x sfp( ifi12)_ copper_OM ( ifi5) ______30 m fo cable__ER(ifi12_dxp1A5DSC_9v).
wifi router in livingroom connected with 30m fo cable to edgerouter.
amazing improvements !

 

[joaovieira]

with so many finding the Edge router amazing, I will have to find a way to configure it. Couldn’t make on the first try.

 

[cat6man]

I'm heading into test mode here and have just setup my edgerouterX (laptop in airplane mode to shut of wifi, set wired usb adapter connection to static ip address, set edgerouter's default 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.21, take to basement and confirm ip address is seen).

At mission control in the basement, i have a fios quantum router (wifi disabled) and a netgear 24 port switch with wires going everywhere for all the stuff around the house for internet, Sagetv video distribution, etc. In my library, I have a NUC running HQP in ramroot under audio-linux (hdplex200 powered) with an ethernet cable down to the switching center in the basement. Case 0 in the attached shows today's configuration where the 24port netgear switch connects the fios server, the music server, and an etherRegen that runs optical back upstairs to an opticalRendu in my music stack. Other power supplies are SR-4 for the opticalRendu and LPS1.2 for etherRegen and opticalModules. Switches currently run on the OEM switching supplies.

I plan to test the following configurations: (see figures attached)
case 0: baseline as above

In all subsequent cases, I insert the edgerouterX and move the music server feed off of the 24port switch and on to the edgerouterX, hopefully isolating it from all the other nasties.

case 1: remove etherRegen and run optical out of the edgerouterX directly to the opticalRendu
case 2: follow the edgerouterX with the etherRegen (copper in, optical out) to the opticalRendu
case 3: follow the edgerouterX with the opticalModule (optical in, copper out) to the etherRegen (copper in, optical out) to the opticalRendu

Stay tuned.

 

[cat6man]

Jumped straight to case 2 and the sound is much improved, more delicate with detail, longer tails to notes (e.g. Bonnie Raitt's Angel from Montgomery, listen to vocal tails at end of each line, woman............mother............lightning..........., also how clearly all 3 guitars are discernable, 2 electric, one acoustic weaving in and out), also soundstage/space are clearly heard making individual voices and choruses (e.g. John Renbourn's Traveler's Prayer, the Weaver's Guantanamera) and instruments more distinct coming out of the mix, then dropping back out

i'm going to stay on this for at least a few days to get a new baseline in my head. it is a real pain to go back and forth switching hardware around as the network gear is at one end of the house in the basement while the music system is at the opposite end of the house on 1st floor.

what i really need is a reasonable solution for the insane number of switching wall wart supplies down in networking mission control room.
there are probably 10-15 of them plugged in multiple strips and outlets.
i want to put everything in the audio system on LPS so i need one LPS for the edgerouterX as the eR and oM are already on LPS-1.2 units.

any suggestions for dealing with all the other wall warts running my sageTV NUC/usb drives/hdhr tv tuners/fios router/NASs/etc/etc??

 

[Rhapsody]

Indeed. So perhaps I ought to send you an EtherREGEN to try Bob!
(BTW, I think we have several mutual friends/clients.)

Best of health to you there in NYC. My heart bleeds for the tragedy there (where I was born and still have numerous relatives).

Sorry, I just saw this. I have the second JCAT Gold Switch coming this week. Once this second switch is tried, I would be happY to try our the EtherREGEN I've so many good things about it!

Thx for the NYC concern. It's a crazy place right now. Somehow I feel that I am in the middle of the tornado as I am right in the middle of it, but surviving very well. I feel guilty as I really like the quietness, even though it is eery.

 

[joaovieira]

Sorry, I just saw this. I have the second JCAT Gold Switch coming this week. Once this second switch is tried, I would be happY to try our the EtherREGEN I've so many good things about it!

Thx for the NYC concern. It's a crazy place right now. Somehow I feel that I am in the middle of the tornado as I am right in the middle of it, but surviving very well. I feel guilty as I really like the quietness, even though it is eery.

Bob, I got the Edgerouter configured today. Thank you very much for sharing this with us all here. It was really amazing the way the sound got better, cleaner, the bass got really better.
It is like a very expensive upgrade.

 

[Rhapsody]

Bob, I got the Edgerouter configured today. Thank you very much for sharing this with us all here. It was really amazing the way the sound got better, cleaner, the bass got really better.
It is like a very expensive upgrade.

So cool. It would be SO NICE if the Edge router was plug n' play, but unfortunately it is not. I think it was Dminches who replaced his ISP router and the Edge was pretty much plug/play. Although I still think that he would have had to update the fw.

I don't like devices that when I receive them the first thing that I have to do is log onto it and update the fw. I like to to connect it and turn it.

I had a TREMENDOUS experience today with Roon and the Extreme ( I think many have), but I'm going to post my experience over in the Extreme thread now.

So glad that you got the Edge up and running. It feels like an accomplishment when you get the Edge playing music!!!

 

[joaovieira]

So cool. It would be SO NICE if the Edge router was plug n' play, but unfortunately it is not. I think it was Dminches who replaced his ISP router and the Edge was pretty much plug/play. Although I still think that he would have had to update the fw.

I don't like devices that when I receive them the first thing that I have to do is log onto it and update the fw. I like to to connect it and turn it.

I had a TREMENDOUS experience today with Roon and the Extreme ( I think many have), but I'm going to post my experience over in the Extreme thread now.

So glad that you got the Edge up and running. It feels like an accomplishment when you get the Edge playing music!!!

I had to update the fw. It didn’t show up the option to configure it as a switch.
The vídeo posted on the Extreme therad by Dminches makes it easy to configure.

 

[Rhapsody]

It's a great $100 find

 

[kimurastanley]

I had to update the fw. It didn’t show up the option to configure it as a switch.
The vídeo posted on the Extreme therad by Dminches makes it easy to configure.

Joao, can share link to the video? Thanks. I am planning to add an EdgeRouter X for my network setup

 

[joaovieira]

Joao, can share link to the video? Thanks. I am planning to add an EdgeRouter X for my network setup

Sure, Pang. Here it is.

 

[heebrog]

Jumped straight to case 2 and the sound is much improved, more delicate with detail, longer tails to notes (e.g. Bonnie Raitt's Angel from Montgomery, listen to vocal tails at end of each line, woman............mother............lightning..........., also how clearly all 3 guitars are discernable, 2 electric, one acoustic weaving in and out), also soundstage/space are clearly heard making individual voices and choruses (e.g. John Renbourn's Traveler's Prayer, the Weaver's Guantanamera) and instruments more distinct coming out of the mix, then dropping back out

Hi cat6man,

When you say you "jumped straight to case 2", do you mean that case 2 is clearly better than case 1?

And in case 2, just to confirm, you have oM connected via copper to Extreme.

Cheers,

G

 

[joaovieira]

Here is a video that shows how to update the firmware of the EdgeRouter.