Doing some research on drivers for the mid range horns. Does anybody have any first hand experience with Goto,ALE,BMS drivers and how they compare to TAD?
TAD no longer makes the 4002 drivers,so I picked up 4 TD4001 drivers without diaphragms. These weigh 29 pounds a piece which I think has a lot to do with the sound. Now I'll research the different diaphragms available. The beryllium type are considered the best.
I might go with the Truextent beryllium diaphragms,maybe.
IMO the Be diaphragms are well worth it. I've never heard a really good CD without them but I'm not as familiar with the WE, ALE, or Goto drivers. I have heard a demo system from Austin Acoustics at the last RMAF I thought was amazing, not sure what they use exactly, I think the CDs are made for them by ALE.
If you need a tweeter the Fostex T500A MkII is excellent, I'm using them currently.
IMO the Be diaphragms are well worth it. I've never heard a really good CD without them but I'm not as familiar with the WE, ALE, or Goto drivers. I have heard a demo system from Austin Acoustics at the last RMAF I thought was amazing, not sure what they use exactly, I think the CDs are made for them by ALE.
If you need a tweeter the Fostex T500A MkII is excellent, I'm using them currently.
I can understand the enthusiasm for the Be Cd's they do sound very good, I'm just not ready to spend 5k for them yet. The TAD drivers were very reasonable and have very large Alnico magnets. What I might do is try the Be diaphragms on the midrange K402 horns first. The TAD diaphragms are scarce,but if I search I could probably find some. Some on the forums think the BMS and Radian don't drop off that much. My main goal right now is to get these up and running and I have budgeted 12k,as of now that looks very good. The horns come with drivers so I'll be able to run some comparisons.
Much more important than the actual driver is the horn and the driver/horn interface. One reason the TAD 4002 got a bad reputation back in the day was the TAD 1.5 to 2 inch adapter the 4002 came with.I do not think the TAD 4002 would be the best match with Klipsch horns (as opposed to Klipschorns,hah,hah ..uhmm)
I have no experience with the 4002 but have been using the 4003 as my main drivers for a decade now. I have no wish to change. I also own JBL(various ,aluminum,titanium,aquaplassed ti and Be) and Goto drivers.
The Goto should ideally be used with Goto horns. They are narrow bandwidth drivers best used in all Goto set-ups. They are incredibly fragile and can only handle maximum 5 watts. They sound very special and beguiling but are not the last word in accuracy.In my opinion Goto tweeters are the best I ever heard but the same caveats apply.
ALE is said (by ALE) to be much more rugged than Goto but may trade that ruggedness for delicacy in reproduction. Having blown many a Goto,I once opened one. You cannot believe how delicate and fragile the construction is-FEP film surround, tiny wire coils and even pieces of cardboard make these as far from the high-tech TADs as one can get.
Much more important than the actual driver is the horn and the driver/horn interface. One reason the TAD 4002 got a bad reputation back in the day was the TAD 1.5 to 2 inch adapter the 4002 came with.I do not think the TAD 4002 would be the best match with Klipsch horns (as opposed to Klipschorns,hah,hah ..uhmm)
I have no experience with the 4002 but have been using the 4003 as my main drivers for a decade now. I have no wish to change. I also own JBL(various ,aluminum,titanium,aquaplassed ti and Be) and Goto drivers.
The Goto should ideally be used with Goto horns. They are narrow bandwidth drivers best used in all Goto set-ups. They are incredibly fragile and can only handle maximum 5 watts. They sound very special and beguiling but are not the last word in accuracy.In my opinion Goto tweeters are the best I ever heard but the same caveats apply.
ALE is said (by ALE) to be much more rugged than Goto but may trade that ruggedness for delicacy in reproduction. Having blown many a Goto,I once opened one. You cannot believe how delicate and fragile the construction is-FEP film surround, tiny wire coils and even pieces of cardboard make these as far from the high-tech TADs as one can get.
Thanks for the input.
I do think you're correct about the TAD 4002 1.5 inch interface with the 2.0 inch Klipsch horns. A incorrect transition between the driver and horn can impact the performance adversely. The TAD 4001 has a 2 inch opening,the same as the horns. Many Klipsch Jubilee owners do use the 4002 though.
Because of the cost alone the Goto drivers are not a option for me.
I have decided to make the 3415's into something different. I like the sound of the TAD type speakers so I can use a Rey Audio RH3 horn for the mid range which measure 27"W and 10"H. Whether I can use the adjustable pedestal or not for mounting remains to be seen. The pedestal is removeable. With both horns mounted without, my guess total height would be just under 6 feet. With that height the speaker locations are a lot more flexible in the room and I think it will fill my dual purpose of a HT and Stereo system better. Another plus is both these Westlake and Rey Audio horns were made for the TAD TD 4001 drivers.
Hi Lee,
I can see already that these speakers will be a exciting project. I have talked to a custom TAD type horn maker and he will make the horns to the needed specifications. They will look like what is pictured in the mock up.
3-way... I use a 330 Hz Le Cleac'h w/ a 4.5" driver to cover 400-15,000 Hz. Tweeter has .57 uF capacitance on it for both xo and attenuation.
It's a very neutral sounding tweeter that blends seamlessly with the mids and adds a lot to the sound. Lower end Fostex has noticeable metallic sounding resonances that keep it from blending well. T500A MkII isn't cheap but it's well worth it.
3-way... I use a 330 Hz Le Cleac'h w/ a 4.5" driver to cover 400-15,000 Hz. Tweeter has .57 uF capacitance on it for both xo and attenuation.
It's a very neutral sounding tweeter that blends seamlessly with the mids and adds a lot to the sound. Lower end Fostex has noticeable metallic sounding resonances that keep it from blending well. T500A MkII isn't cheap but it's well worth it.
Hi Dave,
I have read listeners that use these tweeters that they add a special harmonic structure to the music that normally is missing.This is In answer to those that say humans can't hear that high. I would like to try these if I am able to incorporate into the system.
I have the horns ordered,both pairs.The 5 amplifiers @5600 watts,the 4 TAD TD4001 drivers,all will be here next week. That will put a dent into what is needed,as I need to order the Fostex super tweeters. Have the passive network designed,digital crossover,and get the horn assemblies configured ,enclosed,finished,and assembled. Lot's more to come. I do love it so. Just added everything up for the total weight of the 3415 + horn section = about 500 lbs each...wow!
For the HT side I have added 2 TAD TSC 1118 SW 18 inch subs and another 400w x 2 amplifier. 6400 watts...enough? Lol
2 TAD TSC 3415 bass arrays w/4 TAD 1603 15 inch speakers w/Steckling passive networks
2 TAD TSC 1118 SW 18 inch subwoofers
2 Horn modules 1 Rey Audio RH3, 1 Westlake Audio SM1,1 Fostex 500amkII Super Tweeter,2 TAD TD 4001 drivers , each
TBD 4 way crossover
TBD preamp or DSP
5 JSX Jerry Steckling Model 2 bass amplifiers and 1 JSX Model 6 horn amplifier
Total watts rms@ 8 ohms = 6400
I talked to my cabinet maker about making me two horn cabinet modules made from walnut. The cabinets would contain both the horns and the Fostex tweeters. The modules would use the existing bolt pattern used for the pedestals. The modules would be about 36"wX24"h and be in the TAD tradition. The speaker would look more like a big monitor than a cinema speaker.
