No need, Alpha testers will be automatically on the Beta list
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Super, Ed -- you guys never rest, do you?
The best of the HDTT offerings are very special indeed. DSD are indeed wonderful sounding, as are their DXD and 384/24 files.
Steve Z
I did some exploring today, under the hood so to speak. In "Server Settings" > "Plugins" > "Inactive plugins" I see a plugin called Don't Stop The Music, described as, " 'Don't Stop The Music' will make sure you don't let the silence kill your flow. Once you reach the end of your playlist it will automatically add music similar to what you've been listening to."
This sounds very similar to what I was requesting above. Is there a reason this plugin is inactive in the TAS alpha? I was tempted to check its box to activate it, but I didn't want to blow anything up.
Tell us more!
Steve Z
When in doubt, RTFM (Read The Full Manual) -- of course there is a way to set up playlists. Ed described it in perfect detail in the pdf TAS quick start guide.
Besides being obsessive workaholics and perfectionists, the Taiko team members are also too polite to rub my nose in my obvious mistakes.
Amazing what a person can learn if they actually read the instructions, isn't it?
Steve
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Wilson just installed a patch on my Extreme that allows play of files with superscript special characters in TAS. I tried it with a few "known offenders" and it works like a charm!
Great work, Wilson. Very much appreciated.
Steve Z
Great work, Wilson. Very much appreciated.
Steve Z
I'm an Extreme owner but not an Alpha tester, nor should I be, but I have a question: what are "superscript special characters"?
More egg on my face -- that little magnifying glass icon to the right of the My Music bar in Browse mode in TAS?. The one that's been there all along? The one that looks suspiciously like the icon that univerally represents a Search function? The one I didn't see before? Yeah, that one.
I can confirm there is indeed a Search function for my library on the Extreme.
Sheesh. Like my mom used to say, "If it was a snake it would have bitten you!"
Steve Z
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Those are characters above letters, such as an umlaut, an apostrophe, or accent marks.
I had to look it up to describe the problem.
Steve Z
TAS Alpha Feedback
I've had the TAS Alpha installed on my Extreme for a few days, so here is a listening report. I won't focus on bugs/quirks here — this is alpha code after all, so these are to be expected, and I have passed them along to the Taiko folks. There are use cases that fail, and that's fine. This is alpha code.
I'm coming at TAS from perhaps a different perspective than most Extreme users, as I'm not using Roon as my primary music player. I've already vented about my frustration with the SQ of Roon, both here and on AS. Before I got an Extreme, I had abandoned Roon on my previous platform (Euphony OS) for Stylus. I also found that my constructive feedback to Roon to improve their SQ was rebuffed due to the trolls that inhabit their forum, the only mechanism via which they accept feedback.
That said, I readily admit that the UI of Roon is head and shoulders above all other music players, so one of the factors that drew me to the Extreme, thanks to the persuasiveness of my friend @romaz , was the prospect of returning to Roon, with all the SQ magic that Emile was able to extract. Sadly, as we all know now, Roon's updates earlier this year derailed that dream, and was one of the forces that impelled the creation of TAS.
For myself, I switched over to using HQPlayer 4 Desktop in a standalone fashion. I have found HQPlayer feeding NAA to run circles around Roon in SQ, albeit with a clunky interface. The control app, HQPDControl gets the job done, but certainly is not the slick UI that Roon is. This is what I use for local files. This also allows me to literally unplug the network from the Extreme during playback, so this is a blessed removal of that whole can of worms (of network switches and cables) from the mix. And the SQ is glorious!
Where I do still use Roon > HQP/NAA is for playback of Qobuz material. So for me, my hopes for TAS were primarily to improve my experience with Qobuz streams. Any improvement over HQP standalone I would consider icing on the cake, but not critical.
Note: in all of the above, I am using the sinc-M PCM upsampling filter in HQP/NAA. I also have some upsampled files that I play natively, and on HQP/NAA I do this by setting filter/dither set to none.
Once I had TAS Alpha running, my primary comparisons were:
Let's cut to the chase. TAS wipes the floor with Roon. It then takes it out to the woodshed and gives it a pasting. Compared to TAS, Roon is barely listenable. The aspect of TAS I am just overjoyed with (SQ only — functionality still needs work. Did I mention? This is alpha code) is just how good Qobuz files sound with TAS > HQP/NAA. Compared to the same file played locally, I would say Qobuz on TAS is about 95% of the SQ. It's that close.
How did TAS > HQP/NAA compare to HQP/NAA standalone? So far, I'd say it's neck and neck. TAS has a more relaxed, natural, and organic presentation, while HQP is a bit more exciting, dynamic, and incisive. At the very least, it's very close.
What about TAS > XD compared to TAS > HQP/NAA? Again, it's very close for me. For those who do any kind of upsampling in real time, the HQP/NAA path is necessary, but if you have files that you can play natively, I'd say TAS > XD was very close to TAS > HQP/NAA (pass through).
Final Thoughts
Emile and co. have really got something promising with TAS. As you'd expect from anything Emile produces, SQ improvement is at the heart of TAS, but I also expect the planned functionality improvements coming in the beta to make this a very slick to use player.
I know I said I wouldn't talk about functionality, but I did want to say that as a classical music fan, gapless playback is very important to me, so I'm glad to see that Taiko have taken that on as a feature requirement for subsequent evolution of TAS. A traditional symphony or concerto has discrete movements, so a pause between them is not bad. However, there are other styles like operas and oratorios, where the piece tends to be broken up into recitatives and arias, that are on separate tracks, but they flow together. Long gaps between each just isn't a satisfying listening experience.
Keep up the good work, Emile, Wilson, and Ed, and looking forward to the beta!
I've had the TAS Alpha installed on my Extreme for a few days, so here is a listening report. I won't focus on bugs/quirks here — this is alpha code after all, so these are to be expected, and I have passed them along to the Taiko folks. There are use cases that fail, and that's fine. This is alpha code.
I'm coming at TAS from perhaps a different perspective than most Extreme users, as I'm not using Roon as my primary music player. I've already vented about my frustration with the SQ of Roon, both here and on AS. Before I got an Extreme, I had abandoned Roon on my previous platform (Euphony OS) for Stylus. I also found that my constructive feedback to Roon to improve their SQ was rebuffed due to the trolls that inhabit their forum, the only mechanism via which they accept feedback.
That said, I readily admit that the UI of Roon is head and shoulders above all other music players, so one of the factors that drew me to the Extreme, thanks to the persuasiveness of my friend @romaz , was the prospect of returning to Roon, with all the SQ magic that Emile was able to extract. Sadly, as we all know now, Roon's updates earlier this year derailed that dream, and was one of the forces that impelled the creation of TAS.
For myself, I switched over to using HQPlayer 4 Desktop in a standalone fashion. I have found HQPlayer feeding NAA to run circles around Roon in SQ, albeit with a clunky interface. The control app, HQPDControl gets the job done, but certainly is not the slick UI that Roon is. This is what I use for local files. This also allows me to literally unplug the network from the Extreme during playback, so this is a blessed removal of that whole can of worms (of network switches and cables) from the mix. And the SQ is glorious!
Where I do still use Roon > HQP/NAA is for playback of Qobuz material. So for me, my hopes for TAS were primarily to improve my experience with Qobuz streams. Any improvement over HQP standalone I would consider icing on the cake, but not critical.
Note: in all of the above, I am using the sinc-M PCM upsampling filter in HQP/NAA. I also have some upsampled files that I play natively, and on HQP/NAA I do this by setting filter/dither set to none.
Once I had TAS Alpha running, my primary comparisons were:
- Qobuz source files
- How does TAS > HQP/NAA compare to Roon > HQP/NAA?
- Local vs. Qobuz
- When using TAS > HQP/NAA, how is the SQ of Qobuz files compared to identical local files?
- For reference, Qobuz > Roon > HQP/NAA sounds much worse than Local > HQP/NAA of the identical file.
- Local files
- Compared to HQP/NAA standalone (fed via drag-n-drop or HQPDControl app), what is the SQ of:
- TAS > XD
- TASP > HQP/NAA?
- Just out of curiosity, how does TAS > HQP/NAA compare to Roon?
- Compared to HQP/NAA standalone (fed via drag-n-drop or HQPDControl app), what is the SQ of:
Let's cut to the chase. TAS wipes the floor with Roon. It then takes it out to the woodshed and gives it a pasting. Compared to TAS, Roon is barely listenable. The aspect of TAS I am just overjoyed with (SQ only — functionality still needs work. Did I mention? This is alpha code) is just how good Qobuz files sound with TAS > HQP/NAA. Compared to the same file played locally, I would say Qobuz on TAS is about 95% of the SQ. It's that close.
How did TAS > HQP/NAA compare to HQP/NAA standalone? So far, I'd say it's neck and neck. TAS has a more relaxed, natural, and organic presentation, while HQP is a bit more exciting, dynamic, and incisive. At the very least, it's very close.
What about TAS > XD compared to TAS > HQP/NAA? Again, it's very close for me. For those who do any kind of upsampling in real time, the HQP/NAA path is necessary, but if you have files that you can play natively, I'd say TAS > XD was very close to TAS > HQP/NAA (pass through).
Final Thoughts
Emile and co. have really got something promising with TAS. As you'd expect from anything Emile produces, SQ improvement is at the heart of TAS, but I also expect the planned functionality improvements coming in the beta to make this a very slick to use player.
I know I said I wouldn't talk about functionality, but I did want to say that as a classical music fan, gapless playback is very important to me, so I'm glad to see that Taiko have taken that on as a feature requirement for subsequent evolution of TAS. A traditional symphony or concerto has discrete movements, so a pause between them is not bad. However, there are other styles like operas and oratorios, where the piece tends to be broken up into recitatives and arias, that are on separate tracks, but they flow together. Long gaps between each just isn't a satisfying listening experience.
Keep up the good work, Emile, Wilson, and Ed, and looking forward to the beta!
Austinpop,
Many Thanks for your report and analysis
When you add up your time and effort, system cost with that of the other Alpha testers, we could never achieved this level of system testing and validation alone.
For me a big takeaway is that we seem no have no streaming SQ difference between USA and Europe anymore. It’s something we have been pondering for 4 years, and now we have found and implemented measures to effectively fix that
All of this reports are so enthusiastic!
I am glad I entered this route more than a year ago as it is by far the best experience in audio.
It is not just owning the top Extreme server.
It is being part of the permanent development and improvement in getting the highest SQ.
Can't wait to try TAS as for me the SQ is much more important than any functionality.
Here is the TAS and Extreme Direct quick start guide
Thank you, Ed. I've replaced my original Quick Start Guide with this latest updated version.
Here is a feature request for consideration:
If I understand the current way to construct and save a Playlist, each track for the Playlist has to be added to the Queue, then the Queue is saved (and named) by clicking on the floppy disc icon.
Would it be possible to add a line item to list that appears when the three dots to the right of a track are clicked, whether or not the the track is in the active play queue? What I envision is similar to how Roon handles this -- clicking on the three dots brings up a list of actions ("Play now", "Append to queue" etc), one of which would be "Add to a Playlist". Selecting "Add To A Playlist" would bring up the list of existing playlists to which the track could be added, as well as the option to create and name a new playlist to add the track to.
Often, I don't want to make a playlist with everything in the queue, I just want to add a certain track when I hear it and say to myself, "Damn, that's good. I want to save that one!"
Other times, I might be reading a review of some music or maybe a review of a piece of equipment where the reviewer is listing the tracks they used to evaluate the device being reviewed. Or, I'm watching a movie or a program on TV and I hear music on the soundtrack, use Shazam to ID the music being played, and I want to construct a playlist consisting of those tracks. So I go to My Library and I go to Qobuz (and Tidal), and find those tracks, and rather than adding them to the queue I am currently playing, I want to construct a new playlist with the music I just found.
Make sense?
Another feature which would modify the current behavior of TAS -- currently, when clicking on a track or album, selecting "Play Now" from the list that pops up clears the entire active queue. I've already nuked several play queues I spent time constructing because I forgot this, or my finger seemed to have life of it's own and I clicked "Play Now" rather than "Append To Queue". (I'm a slow learner)
Instead of clearing the contents of the current queue, could we instead just start playing the track by clicking "Play Now", but instead of clearing the current queue, just append the track to end of the queue and start playing. We'd end up bypassing everything in the queue, but we wouldn't destroy the queue. If we wanted to, we could go back and start listening to the queue again after the "Play Now" selection finished.
I offer my feature requests to the list so they can be discussed, since there are undoubtedly folks who might have ideas of doing the same thing in a better way, or there might be a reason what I'm asking about isn't feasible and the Taiko team could weigh in. The last thing I want is to bloat TAS like Roon, or try to make TAS a "Roon-lite". Sound quality over all else, of course!
Thanks,
Steve Z
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Oh yeah, I forgot to include when talking about constructing a saving Playlists, that Playlists should support mixed contents. That is, tracks from Qobuz, Tidal or My Library all in the same Playlist. I think that occurs now, but just to be sure.
Thanks!
Steve Z
Thanks!
Steve Z
Thanks so much Edward~!!
Although I'm not tester, I'll inform this guide to Korean customers.
Really GREAT~!!!
I find it very exciting that all alpha testers have become mesmerized with the SQ of TAS. It really is that good
The thing for me through this entire alpha tester procedure was that the Taiko team listened to all of us took notes and told us the beta version is going to be even better. I believe it
But the beauty of being a Taiko owner remains the customer service which is second to none. All of us found that many files of all formats and resolution would not play if the title had a superscript in it. This was reported to Winston who by the next day developed a patch to fix this
Today Wilson inserted the patch on my Extreme. I was excited to hear some of these files as many are used when I demo changes in a system. Sat down to listen. Pushed play and again was welcomed with total silence. I reported this to Wilson who said he needed to write a second patch. I went for a walk and when I came home I discovered Wilson had accessed my computer and installed a brand new patch which he wrote code for in less than an hour. I pushed okay and voila..... every file now plays
kudos to Wilson for his attentiveness and how quick he responds with a successful outcome
Emile, you go man. The best is yet to come
The thing for me through this entire alpha tester procedure was that the Taiko team listened to all of us took notes and told us the beta version is going to be even better. I believe it
But the beauty of being a Taiko owner remains the customer service which is second to none. All of us found that many files of all formats and resolution would not play if the title had a superscript in it. This was reported to Winston who by the next day developed a patch to fix this
Today Wilson inserted the patch on my Extreme. I was excited to hear some of these files as many are used when I demo changes in a system. Sat down to listen. Pushed play and again was welcomed with total silence. I reported this to Wilson who said he needed to write a second patch. I went for a walk and when I came home I discovered Wilson had accessed my computer and installed a brand new patch which he wrote code for in less than an hour. I pushed okay and voila..... every file now plays
kudos to Wilson for his attentiveness and how quick he responds with a successful outcome
Emile, you go man. The best is yet to come
My final caveat..
TAS was inserted 8 days ago in my system and since that time I have not listened to Roon once orher than to verify that I could change from one server to the other
I would recommend you all take Emile up on the offer to be a beta tester. You won’t regret it TAS is the real deal
TAS was inserted 8 days ago in my system and since that time I have not listened to Roon once orher than to verify that I could change from one server to the other
I would recommend you all take Emile up on the offer to be a beta tester. You won’t regret it TAS is the real deal
Thank you Steve for keeping us educated with TAS in „Taiko Neverending University”
I learned from this thred so much.
Will ask Emile or Chris to update my server with that new softwere as you advice.
Now I see what Emile is trying to offer that no one could do In the industry.
it is „The Package„
Usually you pick server you add different softwere , OS, use different usb cards, nic cards ,
and you consider to try x number of switches.
Than it all works but is never going to work optimal as there are billions of combinations of settings in the softwere you have.
Here with „Taiko Package” you get it all.
We have optimal hardwere already ,
Now we will get the optimised Softwere for that -TAS with player.
There is Taiko USB card comming soon that will elevate this experience further .
And Taiko switch that will be as important to control all from the beggining till the end of „ bits”
Most important is Takio Team will optimise all of this to work the best possible way.
I must say that testing this „Package” on many different DACs as Emile and his Team are doing is the best to avoid issues on different platforms.
There is more. We all hear a bit different from biological / anatomical reasons.
Testing it extensive on many different Ears and Systems is what will pay back at the end.
Thank You all !
ps. Just please do not overload TAS with to much funcionality.
We dont want it to compromise the SQ.
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