Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[oldmustang]

The short version from the Taiko document available from their website is:

Guide to selecting USB Profiles on the SGM Extreme Music Server
There are 5 steps in this process:
1. Look up your DAC in the DAC list to find the ideal USB profile.
2. Make a VNC remote desktop connection to your Music Server.
3. Execute the selected profile by right-clicking it and selecting "Run with Powershell".
4. Select the appropriate output bit rate in Roon.
5. Setting TAS Buffers (only required when you have TAS installed)

The parent document with detailed instructions how to do each step is located here:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Guide-to-selecting-USB-Profiles-on-the-Extreme-Music-Server_v5.pdf

Have fun.

Steve Z

Oh crap. You want to select the appropriate USB driver in Roon (I gotta learn to read more carefully!)

That is contained in the document:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Taiko-Extreme-Roon-Settings_V2.pdf

(Scroll down to "Do not enable any audio zone except ASIO")

That should get you on the right path.

Back to my nap.

Steve Z

 

[simorag]

TAS downloads the entire file and/or queue / album depending on serial or batch play mode selected so yes it is more "sensitive" to download speeds.

Will XDMS follow the same logic (downloading entire file or album) or will it use some sort of buffering?

As much as I like TAS over Roon for its superior transparency, I am struggling with it for streaming especially for classical / hi-res where single tracks can be close to half a GB in size.

 

[EuroDriver]

Will XDMS follow the same logic (downloading entire file or album) or will it use some sort of buffering?

As much as I like TAS over Roon for its superior transparency, I am struggling with it for streaming especially for classical / hi-res where single tracks can be close to half a GB in size.

XDMS has two operating modes, Discovery and Concert

- Discovery mode only caches the current track and then only fetches / downloads the next track when the current track is finished. The gap between tracks depends on file size and Internet speed but typically under 3 seconds. In this mode you can skip jump, change queue order and everything else

- Concert Mode caches the current track and the next track in the Queue to deliver a short as possible gap whilst maintaining Sound Quality. In Concert mode, changing queue order, random play and other Functions such as jumping, skipping are not allowed

In pretty careful testing, there is no discernible SQ difference between Discovery and Concert

 

[simorag]

XDMS has two operating modes, Discovery and Concert

- Discovery mode only caches the current track and then only fetches / downloads the next track when the current track is finished. The gap between tracks depends on file size and Internet speed but typically under 3 seconds. In this mode you can skip jump, change queue order and everything else

- Concert Mode caches the current track and the next track in the Queue to deliver a short as possible gap whilst maintaining Sound Quality. In Concert mode, changing queue order, random play and other Functions such as jumping, skipping are not allowed

In pretty careful testing, there is no discernible SQ difference between Discovery and Concert

Thanks Ed. Am I understanding it right that also XDMS, in Discovery mode, caches an entire track before start playing it?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Oh crap. You want to select the appropriate USB driver in Roon (I gotta learn to read more carefully!)

That is contained in the document:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Taiko-Extreme-Roon-Settings_V2.pdf

(Scroll down to "Do not enable any audio zone except ASIO")

That should get you on the right path.

Back to my nap.

Steve Z

Thanks, Steve Z! The request could be read two ways and you answered both possibilities

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Th

Thanks Ed. Am I understanding it right that also XDMS, in Discovery mode, caches an entire track before start playing it?

That's indeed correct.

 

[simorag]

Th

That's indeed correct.

Thanks Christiaan for confirming, I assume this must be the best, no-compromise, choice for ultimate sound quality.

I should look into a significant boost of my internet connection speed then

 

[Nils]

XDMS has two operating modes, Discovery and Concert

- Discovery mode only caches the current track and then only fetches / downloads the next track when the current track is finished. The gap between tracks depends on file size and Internet speed but typically under 3 seconds. In this mode you can skip jump, change queue order and everything else

- Concert Mode caches the current track and the next track in the Queue to deliver a short as possible gap whilst maintaining Sound Quality. In Concert mode, changing queue order, random play and other Functions such as jumping, skipping are not allowed

In pretty careful testing, there is no discernible SQ difference between Discovery and Concert

Discovery looks very close to TAS.Serial in that only one track is downloaded, pre-processed and played.
Concert looks like similar to TAS.Batch with the difference that Batch-size is two (I believe TAS.Batch-size is 20 or so)

I assume that the soniq challenge is to have two parallel processes running:
- Playing a track
- Downloading and pre-processing a track (this process may negatively impact the SQ of Playing a track)

With Concert-mode:
A) Are you fetching Batch #2 WHILE playing Batch #1(-> risk of negative soniq impact, but closer to gapless, i.e. good UX, see above), or
B) Are you fetching Batch #2 AFTER playing Batch #1 (-> no risk of negative soniq impact but you will have double wait time after each batch -> bad UX)

Clearly, Roon is following strategy A) above - this along with other design choices limits the SQ potential of Roon...

I beleive that XDMS is also following A) but based on @EuroDriver's "there is no discernible SQ difference between Discovery and Concert" we are in good hands and - we can always move to Discovery.

The approach of having dual-modes (Discovery | Concert) leaves the ultimate prioritization (SQ | UX) to the end user - smart move.

 

[EuroDriver]

Thanks Ed. Am I understanding it right that also XDMS, in Discovery mode, caches an entire track before start playing it?

Yes, caches the whole track

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Thanks Christiaan for confirming, I assume this must be the best, no-compromise, choice for ultimate sound quality.

I should look into a significant boost of my internet connection speed then

Indeed, this strategy is chosen for the best sound quality. Fast internet is not a hard requirement but always to be preferred

 

[jbrrp1]

And I should have read the whole thread to the end before replying. @VPN explained themself very well.

I will now go back to the

XDMS has two operating modes, Discovery and Concert

- Discovery mode only caches the current track and then only fetches / downloads the next track when the current track is finished. The gap between tracks depends on file size and Internet speed but typically under 3 seconds. In this mode you can skip jump, change queue order and everything else

- Concert Mode caches the current track and the next track in the Queue to deliver a short as possible gap whilst maintaining Sound Quality. In Concert mode, changing queue order, random play and other Functions such as jumping, skipping are not allowed

In pretty careful testing, there is no discernible SQ difference between Discovery and Concert

Ed, it sounds like both modes are not "gapless", just offering different lengths of disruption between tracks. I could have sworn that it was stated that XDMS would bring us gapless playing, which is truly important to many. So, no gapless in XDMS?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Ed, it sounds like both modes are not "gapless", just offering different lengths of disruption between tracks. I could have sworn that it was stated that XDMS would bring us gapless playing, which is truly important to many. So, no gapless in XDMS?

We're still working on Gapless.

 

[John T]

Perhaps someone can share their knowledge with this question? I either read or Emile told me from a SQ perspective, a speed of say between 200-300 may be better than say 1000. Is their any validity to this or is this splitting hairs?

 

[Nils]

Perhaps someone can share their knowledge with this question? I either read or Emile told me from a SQ perspective, a speed of say between 200-300 may be better than say 1000. Is their any validity to this or is this splitting hairs?

@John T I am using 100/100 speed, this is usually 'standard' these days with fiber-based access to Internet.

I stream music a lot via Qobuz so mainly high-resolution FLAC 24bit-192 Khz sampling ferquency and have no issues with the speed, I also do quite a bit of video streaming as majority of that these days is 4K resolution quite a bit of bandwidth, during working from home I spend entire days in MSFT Teams connected via HD-camera.

I see no reason to spend extra to get > 100/100 speed.

Fiber infrastructure itself, including the provider's fibre converter HW which terminate the fibre on your premise is dimensioned so that you can get 1 000/100 etc so possible to upgrade later if need should materialize (for an increased fee to your service provider).

In terms of sonic differences I would say that these pertain to your local network equipment: fibre converter, router(s), switches and their power supplies - not to whether you have 100/100, 250/100, 500/250 or 1 000/100 speed. That choice is only about your bandwidth needs - again my recommendation is 100/100 I think few people need more, maybe if you have a large family (many end users) that all stream a lot of content in paralell.

 

[John T]

@Nils:Thank You, I must have read wrong or got my wires crossed. For some reason I thought the actual Bandwidth had some "kind of sonic influence" Not very much difference price wise between 1000 or 100-200. After living with satellite all these years fiber will be most welcome. Thanks again...John

 

[cat6man]

Ed, it sounds like both modes are not "gapless", just offering different lengths of disruption between tracks. I could have sworn that it was stated that XDMS would bring us gapless playing, which is truly important to many. So, no gapless in XDMS?

while gapless is still a work in progress, is there any fundamental obstacle to having gapless playback plus the ability to skip ahead, both within a track and to skip and entire track?

 

[matthias]

Perhaps someone can share their knowledge with this question? I either read or Emile told me from a SQ perspective, a speed of say between 200-300 may be better than say 1000. Is their any validity to this or is this splitting hairs?

I am aware of this post from Emile but it was one and and half year ago:

Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

I can add: Lejonklou pre and power amps from Sweden Matt I would add Crayon amps to this list (Austria/Germany).

www.whatsbestforum.com

Matt

 

[wil]

I'm finally getting around to downloading files I've purchased through Qobuz on to the Extreme drive. I've run into a roadblock. I can't seem to find a way to transfer the files from Qobuz to the Extreme. I've tried for two days to reach Qobuz for Help but the company appears to be run by careless bots.

I've purchased the album, downloaded the album and followed the instructions in the Taiko manual to log in and have what looks like the correct window to which to drag the files into. I've included a couple of screenshots. Help appreciated!

 

[John T]

@matthias: Thanks Matt! I knew I saw that where he intentionally throttled back the speed. I started wondering if I was imagining things! John

 

[oldmustang]

I'm finally getting around to downloading files I've purchased through Qobuz on to the Extreme drive. I've run into a roadblock. I can't seem to find a way to transfer the files from Qobuz to the Extreme. I've tried for two days to reach Qobuz for Help but the company appears to be run by careless bots.

I've purchased the album, downloaded the album and followed the instructions in the Taiko manual to log in and have what looks like the correct window to which to drag the files into. I've included a couple of screenshots. Help appreciated!

View attachment 96956

I don't know of any way to get the files from your Qobuz app download window to the Extreme Music folder. What I do is go to the folder on my Mac where my downloaded Qobuz files actually reside and after checking all the tagging with Yate and saving, drag the album folders from the download folder to the Extreme Music folder (actually, in my case I have several folders nested inside the Extreme Music folder for PCM, DSD, PGGB, etc.).

Steve Z