Oh well. You have it all thought out. I don't disagree with any of your points, no sir. But I bought one anyway. It's a keeper.
The Grid Protector, the EMI Protector and The Allocator By Schnerzinger-In My System and I’m Blown Away
- Thread starter Steve williams
- Start date
Can’t say in US but I had (direct) experience in Italy and (from other members) in Germany, UK and Ireland that demos are easy to get contacting official dealers.
I sometimes found more useful the opinions offered by trusted members (audio friends) than in depth reviews from professional reviewers or manufacturers, I’m not a tech guy and even though all detailed explanations I read about a product often gave me a feeling of seriousness behind the design, it rarely matched the pleasure or involvement once added in my system. How something works not necessarily means that it really works in my system. On the contrary each time I follow trusted audio friends my expectations are higher and usually more successful.
I said trusted members, I mean audio friends since years, with which I had the chance to debate about gear, with multiple times sharing conclusions, tests and purchases for the good or bad. Member I never met in person who live on the other side of the world too, like @aangen!
PS Audio forum for instance is a precious resource (and WTB hopefully).
Having said that I agree with you, a home demo is always mandatory, no matter well reported measures, technical explanations or trusted suggestions provided.
I am beginning to wonder if AudioArts is still going to be US distributor. Time will tell.
Patrick. I deleted my own post as I felt I was speaking for Gideon and that was not my place. I was offering information that was shared with me and frankly the information has been shared and reshared. I know that Gideon is selling a lot of these without demos, I also know that he offers In store demos to clients who want to hear the products. I also know that these products are all individually hand made and from the time an order is submitted until he receives product is 6-8 weeks.
The other thing that I find somewhat of an issue, is where is it written that a dealer has to offer in home demos. Certainly that is a good thing if they do but if you heard about a cartridge for your turn table that you were interested in buying, tell me how many dealers would send you one and say here, have fun. These products cost money and how would you react as a dealer if you received your demo unit which was new in the box when sent only to receive it back scratched .
FWIW you heard the Grid and EMI at my house when I had the Lampi event . Ron heard it as well at my house when he too was here and he commented to me that he is amazed that every time he visits my digital always sounds better but he was quite impressed that weekend. Yes there was a new DAC and new Taiko gear but I can telll you that what was creating such a huge impression was these devices. Even Lukasz who knows his gear commented that he had never heard it as good. The difference was the Grid and EMI. When you were at my house I dont recall you asking Fred or Lukasz about any of their proprietary information.
I seem to remember that you liked what you heard and bought a H360
MEET & GREET: Lukas Fikus and Emile Bok - hear the Lampizator Horizon 360 & Taiko Olympus & IO!
Looks great guys - Happy listening :) !! / Jk
whatsbestforum.com
It seems it is you who is stirring the pot. You ask questions that we users have no answers. I have read the Schnerzinger website for answers and they just arent there
My interest was turned on when I read Myles Astor review whom I consider always dead on accurate with his assessments and is very critical and if he raves about something then I am interested. Further Myles IIRC awarded these devices products of the year
Also those of us here who are users are all saying the same thing. When I started this thread it was to bring information about a product that I thought to be so different and so transformational to my system that I thought it would be of interest to this community. You seem to be throwing doubts and aspersions into this thread and as the OP perhaps if how things are being handled bother you, perhaps you should take a pass and move on. After I heard the Grid which was indeed a demo, I purchased it. I was so taken by these that I also purchased the EMI and Allocator without hearing them. Im glad I did
I hope that clarifies things so please stop trying to stigmatize me, my thread or this forum. I have talked to Gideon about demos and I dont know where he stands on this and hopefully he will chime in but I know that he has had a very busy weekend
Im sure that everyone who reads this thread have purchased some audio component that they read about and purchased without demo but it didn't float their boat and they sold it. So once again I think it most unfair that Gideon is being demonized for not sending demos to everyone .
Let me jump back into the discussion. Yes, I have no idea what they do, no idea how they do it, and their website is filled with circular discussions and terminology, which does not clear up anything. Although it might be due to the limits of my writing skills, the only way to describe what I hear unfortunately ends up producing “flowery” words like realism and immersion. My system and Steve’s system are polar opposites, yet we are hearing and experiencing the identical effect. Unless several people are affected with strong confirmation bias, I am left with the conclusion that I have a bunch of boxes with lights and antennas in my listening room, which significantly improve my enjoyment of the music. The best I can do is describe these effects as honestly as possible.
With that said, my Allocator arrived this week, so take these comments as initial impressions.
The first thing you notice, is that Allocator comes packed in a gorgeous box, with what appears to be solid walnut sides. If you saw the packing box sitting on your rack, it could appear to be a component. Yep, that has nothing to do with the sound, but it certainly is beautiful and shows an attention to detail.
I took some notes while listening. In general, my problem is that Steve has defined the Allocator (and the other Schnerzinger products) so well and so eloquently, I’m not sure that I can add much to enhance his observations.
Also, there were some ongoing discussions as to the Allocator versus other power conditioners. Like everyone else, I have no idea what the Allocator is, but it certainly does not act like any power conditioner and/or distributor that I have encountered. Prior to the Allocator I used a Nordost QBASE power strip primarily to deal with some latent hum issues with my previous components, certainly not the Soultions. Yes, it reduced the hum but for me that's the only difference that I heard. The entire room is fed by an EQUI=TECH panel, with the Allocator plugged into balanced power.
Onward to a few initial observations.
First, the Allocator adds to, enhances, and deepens, the signature Schnerzinger effect. It is cumulative to the Grid Protector and EMI protector.
For my wife and I, an immersive and emotional attachment to music is our joy of listening. With apologies for the flowery rhetoric, the Allocator effect pulls you deeper into the music, and yes, it is more compelling. My litmus test of musical involvement is to turn the lights off, sit back, relax, and just absorb the music. When everything is firing on all cylinders, your mind is focused only on the music, you can listen for hours on end and come away emotionally drained - in a good way. The Allocator increases this sensation. There are times this week I had to struggle to pull myself away from listening.
There is an increase in purity of the sound, with richer tone, air, and extension. The net result is an even deeper musical involvement.
Just for fun, I am about to install Schnerzinger interconnects that have been breaking in on the Cable Cooker. Let's see how they add to the mix. It should be fun...
I'll keep updating.
Fancy boxes feel like a try to make whats in the box feel like it is worth the ask...
Thanks Mike, may I ask you if it’s the Max or basic version?
I’m considering it as my next step early in January.
In my experience the most important to consider for all who now try single Schnerzinger components, who combine them with other components using different, usually more compromised concepts with partly overlapping functions is, that whatever improvement you already hear (and I read you do), it’s a fraction of what you’ll be able to hear when focusing on the wholehearted use of the Schnerzinger signal path. It’s a complete modular concept with components for various, specific purposes, in combination enabling a resolution that’s more or less broken by anything else regardless of price or reputation used inbetween, although that situation will already make you feel you’re in heaven.
They very well and on a detail level know the basic technology others use, they have experience with those products, they know how far (only) one can get with them and they purposefully go a different way with a seemingly much higher potential. Everyone who had the chance to listen there to a fully Schnerzinger equipped setup, knows, that microscopic changes and especially switches to even the actually hippest of the competing accessories, cabling and gear, means an unbelievable drop in sound quality. But as always, it’s something to experience, rather not to read.
The good news is, that everyone who already had positive experience with trying one or two parts of the whole Schnerzinger thing within their still comparably limited environment, will continue to be more and more amazed, with the biggest (not the smallest) step at the end. Imagine that what you tried so far is one piece of a kind of ultra high resolution component in your standard or high resolution chain. It already has its benefit, but is still limited by the rest of the current environment.
They also sell their stuff in single pieces. Others just offer single pieces. But their very value is to do it right from start to end of the whole chain.
They very well and on a detail level know the basic technology others use, they have experience with those products, they know how far (only) one can get with them and they purposefully go a different way with a seemingly much higher potential. Everyone who had the chance to listen there to a fully Schnerzinger equipped setup, knows, that microscopic changes and especially switches to even the actually hippest of the competing accessories, cabling and gear, means an unbelievable drop in sound quality. But as always, it’s something to experience, rather not to read.
The good news is, that everyone who already had positive experience with trying one or two parts of the whole Schnerzinger thing within their still comparably limited environment, will continue to be more and more amazed, with the biggest (not the smallest) step at the end. Imagine that what you tried so far is one piece of a kind of ultra high resolution component in your standard or high resolution chain. It already has its benefit, but is still limited by the rest of the current environment.
They also sell their stuff in single pieces. Others just offer single pieces. But their very value is to do it right from start to end of the whole chain.
Steve & Others,Patrick. I deleted my own post as I felt I was speaking for Gideon and that was not my place. I was offering information that was shared with me and frankly the information has been shared and reshared. I know that Gideon is selling a lot of these without demos, I also know that he offers In store demos to clients who want to hear the products. I also know that these products are all individually hand made and from the time an order is submitted until he receives product is 6-8 weeks.
The other thing that I find somewhat of an issue, is where is it written that a dealer has to offer in home demos. Certainly that is a good thing if they do but if you heard about a cartridge for your turn table that you were interested in buying, tell me how many dealers would send you one and say here, have fun. These products cost money and how would you react as a dealer if you received your demo unit which was new in the box when sent only to receive it back scratched .
FWIW you heard the Grid and EMI at my house when I had the Lampi event . Ron heard it as well at my house when he too was here and he commented to me that he is amazed that every time he visits my digital always sounds better but he was quite impressed that weekend. Yes there was a new DAC and new Taiko gear but I can telll you that what was creating such a huge impression was these devices. Even Lukasz who knows his gear commented that he had never heard it as good. The difference was the Grid and EMI. When you were at my house I dont recall you asking Fred or Lukasz about any of their proprietary information.
I seem to remember that you liked what you heard and bought a H360
MEET & GREET: Lukas Fikus and Emile Bok - hear the Lampizator Horizon 360 & Taiko Olympus & IO!
Looks great guys - Happy listening :) !! / Jk
It seems it is you who is stirring the pot. You ask questions that we users have no answers. I have read the Schnerzinger website for answers and they just arent there
My interest was turned on when I read Myles Astor review whom I consider always dead on accurate with his assessments and is very critical and if he raves about something then I am interested. Further Myles IIRC awarded these devices products of the year
Also those of us here who are users are all saying the same thing. When I started this thread it was to bring information about a product that I thought to be so different and so transformational to my system that I thought it would be of interest to this community. You seem to be throwing doubts and aspersions into this thread and as the OP perhaps if how things are being handled bother you, perhaps you should take a pass and move on. After I heard the Grid which was indeed a demo, I purchased it. I was so taken by these that I also purchased the EMI and Allocator without hearing them. Im glad I did
I hope that clarifies things so please stop trying to stigmatize me, my thread or this forum. I have talked to Gideon about demos and I dont know where he stands on this and hopefully he will chime in but I know that he has had a very busy weekend
Im sure that everyone who reads this thread have purchased some audio component that they read about and purchased without demo but it didn't float their boat and they sold it. So once again I think it most unfair that Gideon is being demonized for not sending demos to everyone .
It is fair to call me a pot stirrer on this thread - I have been curious and skeptical from the onset of what I felt was potentially hyperbole around a tweak.
Also, in response to a few of your notes,
Correct! I did buy one. I am not someone who just talks. I bought one on advise and counsel of some people on WBF - most notably, Ron Resnick.
It was you that suggested the doubters do a demo [rather than post criticisms]. I don't think it's appropriate for you now to get troubled that people are eager to follow-up on your guidance!
This feels hollow to me. Imagine someone telling you to audition a tweak at their location on a system you were unfamiliar with and then telling you that it cannot be heard with the tweak removed for some kind of A|B...because the tweak continues to work for 24 hours after being plugged in. (I will admit that this last sentence made me laugh as i thought about it!)
In closing, I don't doubt what many of you are saying and experiencing about this tweak. I continue to be very curious. With that said, read through the thread, it's a strange one...entertaining at best with a pinch of science fiction at worst. I would ask that we all take a half-step back. This is just stuff we buy - nothing more, nothing less. It's a tweak component.
Oooookkayyyy....
Please excuse me while I get an adult drink and go back to listening to music.
Tom
Please excuse me while I get an adult drink and go back to listening to music.
Tom
Patrick, I do appreciate your comments and I'm not being a hard ass but here is where I'm. miffed. What you fail to say is that Gideon contacted you and offered you a demo and as I understand it, you turned down the offer
Also interesting Patrick is that 2 years ago I strongly encouraged you to buy a Horizon. I even arranged for an in house demo and Fred sent you one and within 3 days of it being in your home you said it wasn't for you . Sure there was a dead tube however there were replacements but you said you couldn't deal with tubes and sent it back. So Ron who is anything but a digitphile was your counsel
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Steve, Please don't be miffed. I was not offered a demo. I would happily accept one, though!Patrick, I do appreciate your comments and I'm not being a hard ass but here is where I'm. miffed. What you fail to say is that Gideon contacted you and offered you a demo and as I understand it, you turned down the offer
Also interesting Patrick is that 2 years ago I strongly encouraged you to buy a Horizon. I even arranged for an in house demo and Fred sent you one and within 3 days of it being in your home you said it wasn't for you . Sure there was a dead tube however there were replacements but you said you couldn't deal with tubes and sent it back. So Ron who is anything but a digitphile was your counsel
As for the Horizon...guilty as charged! I am, at times, less than perfectly analytical and maybe even a tick impetuous!
But, as for Ron, he has been an incredible mentor, friend and guiding light through the hobby for me. I think I would have washed out were it not for him.
Steve, I continue to respect and admire you and what you have built.
Why any maker would want to be completely honest in what there product does ? How it does it. ?
you can’t as it is many buy or open things up to see what it looks like to help them.
If some people feel it works and I’m happy for them.
here is an example of how complicated audio is.
a buddy asked me to give him thoughts on a simple star ground system
when done the star point was
Placed in an old cigar box.
this person is extremely talented and observant really well at exploring and understanding conclusions.
small gauge wires was a good start
first off the box was on the floor
As each device was added he took notes of changes. By listening no measurements used
he then two days later says hey if I move the box things change.
I asked what do you mean in moving the box.
he simply made the box wires long enough to move them. Not disconnect just move the box
one side of room racks of equipment to the other
things heard were large !
I suggested move up above all but in front or behind all. But not above any devices.
this was best
without derailing how Steve and others feel this is a simple real story and ps all ss no tubes used anywhere.
I can speculate why but think about the complexity of this hobby.
oh he don’t have any WiFi in this room either
so my point is if someone posted this I would be very suspicious of the validity of the post.
I am a lot of things and I’m really sure some truly dislike me for my honest opinions
also I have some water melons and bricks to sell if anyone is interested
you can’t as it is many buy or open things up to see what it looks like to help them.
If some people feel it works and I’m happy for them.
here is an example of how complicated audio is.
a buddy asked me to give him thoughts on a simple star ground system
when done the star point was
Placed in an old cigar box.
this person is extremely talented and observant really well at exploring and understanding conclusions.
small gauge wires was a good start
first off the box was on the floor
As each device was added he took notes of changes. By listening no measurements used
he then two days later says hey if I move the box things change.
I asked what do you mean in moving the box.
he simply made the box wires long enough to move them. Not disconnect just move the box
one side of room racks of equipment to the other
things heard were large !
I suggested move up above all but in front or behind all. But not above any devices.
this was best
without derailing how Steve and others feel this is a simple real story and ps all ss no tubes used anywhere.
I can speculate why but think about the complexity of this hobby.
oh he don’t have any WiFi in this room either
so my point is if someone posted this I would be very suspicious of the validity of the post.
I am a lot of things and I’m really sure some truly dislike me for my honest opinions
also I have some water melons and bricks to sell if anyone is interested
Hi everyone!
Wow…., who knew these devices would cause such a stir amongst well meaning audiophiles. Again, I’ve been with Schnerzinger for 10 years and kinda (ironically) miss when it was a more quiet gem
But I would like to clarify the demo policy as much confusion abound! Because demand has been so high, especially the Grid in particular, I’m left with literally nothing. Production is also slow as it’s not a mass production device. So I’ve been trying to convey this to interested parties and I do apologize that I had nothing to send many of those sending me inquiries.
However, I will be getting more in after the holidays and will offer a Grid for demo to interested parties. Kindly give me a chance to replenish It’s that simple….
The Schnerzinger line is quite extensive and as Jazzjunkie above elaborated, it’s really a gestalt approach that Steve and my other clients are attesting to…., especially with the wires being incorporated.
Lastly, and I’d like this to be clear: Schnerzinger is not for everybody and it’s 100% ok if not for you. Perhaps you’ll demo in the future and decide it doesn’t meet expectations - that’s absolutely fine (audio is simply too subjective and personal) and I would never want a client burdened with remorse.
Wow…., who knew these devices would cause such a stir amongst well meaning audiophiles. Again, I’ve been with Schnerzinger for 10 years and kinda (ironically) miss when it was a more quiet gem
But I would like to clarify the demo policy as much confusion abound! Because demand has been so high, especially the Grid in particular, I’m left with literally nothing. Production is also slow as it’s not a mass production device. So I’ve been trying to convey this to interested parties and I do apologize that I had nothing to send many of those sending me inquiries.
However, I will be getting more in after the holidays and will offer a Grid for demo to interested parties. Kindly give me a chance to replenish
It’s that simple….The Schnerzinger line is quite extensive and as Jazzjunkie above elaborated, it’s really a gestalt approach that Steve and my other clients are attesting to…., especially with the wires being incorporated.
Lastly, and I’d like this to be clear: Schnerzinger is not for everybody and it’s 100% ok if not for you. Perhaps you’ll demo in the future and decide it doesn’t meet expectations - that’s absolutely fine (audio is simply too subjective and personal) and I would never want a client burdened with remorse.
My post was not to say or even suggest the product is not good or does not have any effect on being positive or negative
my post was about if users who obviously care and do pay attention to effects of products are good for me.
my little story is true and proves the point of simple things glossed over can be found.
i am very sure there products are effective and do well.
but no maker really needs to be giving away how a product is made or what it does to allow others to copy.
I mean this.
the bricks and melons is not for sarcasm
it’s also facts along the lines of isolation platforms or anything effecting resonant vibrations.
someone here asked the question what do I use to fill my hollow spaces
In my racks.
many had there views but Mike L had the right answer do you need it ?
what effects it may have on what you do.
the melon or brick also has merit.
so if I was taken for being against the product oh I am very much not against this product period.
I felt this post was very much needed
my post was about if users who obviously care and do pay attention to effects of products are good for me.
my little story is true and proves the point of simple things glossed over can be found.
i am very sure there products are effective and do well.
but no maker really needs to be giving away how a product is made or what it does to allow others to copy.
I mean this.
the bricks and melons is not for sarcasm
it’s also facts along the lines of isolation platforms or anything effecting resonant vibrations.
someone here asked the question what do I use to fill my hollow spaces
In my racks.
many had there views but Mike L had the right answer do you need it ?
what effects it may have on what you do.
the melon or brick also has merit.
so if I was taken for being against the product oh I am very much not against this product period.
I felt this post was very much needed
I think what kicks people in the pants is Steve and others present the Schnerzinger products as necessary. Its similar to Peters Natural Sound thread. If you don't buy Schnerzinger, your system is hobbled. If you didn't follow the beat of their drum, your stereo will never reach a level of playback theirs is at. And their comeback is, well, they only report what they hear. This will always be a contentious thread. As is the Natural Sound.
Ok well I’m sorry for this then. I did not read the entire thread lol. I read a few pages back to see what it was about. I don’t think Steve is being demanding but he is passionate in what he likes.
there are some true believers on here them well I’m not so sure about.
I for one will not spend 5k on any tweak but this is just me.
the brick and melon is very true but take notice no one Answered me lol.
It’s too cheap Rex it’s all about the Benjamins man lol
there are some true believers on here them well I’m not so sure about.
I for one will not spend 5k on any tweak but this is just me.
the brick and melon is very true but take notice no one Answered me lol.
It’s too cheap Rex it’s all about the Benjamins man lol
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