The Path to Paradise . . . or the Road to Ruin?

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, my favorite speaker at the 2015 AXPONA, was Vapor Audio's Perfect Storm. That Raal ribbon tweeter is something special (even better than my Magnepan's ribbon tweet). They had incredible depth and detail, and the transmission line bass was great too. This may have been the best speaker I have ever heard, this coming from a big planer fan guy. Only 45K to boot


http://www.vaporsound.com/speakers/perfect-storm-black/

EEEESH! Another option?

The Magnepan ribbon tweeter is my favorite tweeter. How can the little sliver of That Raal ribbon be better than the long Magnepan ribbon?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Yes Ron, ANOTHER option.
Of course, it's only an option if you choose to listen to it...
Btw, I find it HIGHLY illuminating, that even after hearing (nr) SOTA options like AG Trio/B'horn, Cessaro Liszt, Genesis Dragon, Rockport Altair/Arrakis, Wilson XLF, MBL 101, Tidal LA, you STILL pine for that Neolith 12" woofer 100-500Hz/panel combination.
That can only mean one thing...

 

[audioguy]

I think so. In alphabetical order:

Analysis Audio Orion (with custom Mark Seaton subwoofer towers)
Genesis Dragon
Gryphon Pendragon
MartinLogan Neolith (with custom Mark Seaton subwoofer towers)
Rockport Arrakis

I'm not directly familiar with your speaker choices but am most familiar with the Seaton subwoofer family. Great choice. I have yet to hear a sub at any price that is better and most don't come close. I have a friend who has one of the very best 2 channel rooms I have ever heard (utilizing Magico Q5's as mains) and he has 2 dual Seaton 18's in front (4 drivers) and 2 SubMersives in the rear. They work for both music and movies. I, unfortunately, sold my 4 SubMersives in order to raise money for a main speaker upgrade and have regretted it every day since. DUMB DUMB move! Very dumb!

 

[Ron Resnick]

I'm not directly familiar with your speaker choices but am most familiar with the Seaton subwoofer family. Great choice. I have yet to hear a sub at any price that is better and most don't come close.

Plus, Mark is delightful to work with!

 

[bonzo75]

I think so. In alphabetical order:

Analysis Audio Orion (with custom Mark Seaton subwoofer towers)
Genesis Dragon
Gryphon Pendragon
MartinLogan Neolith (with custom Mark Seaton subwoofer towers)
Rockport Arrakis

Analysis Audio on my list, after trios with bass horns, 3rd choice an Acoustat 1+1 multichannel, and when more funds permit, add WE 16A mono on the long wall in addition to main system. Everything subject to budget and space. I think I am maxed out on panels I have heard, so Bionors, Yamamuras, Kenrdick Sound, unique DIY horns to discover.

 

[KeithR]

Yes Ron, ANOTHER option.
Of course, it's only an option if you choose to listen to it...
Btw, I find it HIGHLY illuminating, that even after hearing (nr) SOTA options like AG Trio/B'horn, Cessaro Liszt, Genesis Dragon, Rockport Altair/Arrakis, Wilson XLF, MBL 101, Tidal LA, you STILL pine for that Neolith 12" woofer 100-500Hz/panel combination.
That can only mean one thing...

I've solved all you guys' problem:

Spirit- Zu Experience
Ron- ML Neolith
Bonzo- panels as he doesn't have room for Trios

I'd bet $1 this happens

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I've solved all you guys' problem:

Spirit- Zu Experience
Ron- ML Neolith
Bonzo- panels as he doesn't have room for Trios

I'd bet $1 this happens

You might well be right!

 

[microstrip]

Ron,
The real question is that one is not buying a speaker, we must listen to it in a system!
We know you will keep the room, but are you keeping your electronics and cables for the new speakers?

 

[Ron Resnick]

You might well be right!

+1

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,
The real question is that one is not buying a speaker, we must listen to it in a system!
We know you will keep the room, but are you keeping your electronics and cables for the new speakers?

I will be keeping (and upgrading) my Io. I will be keeping the VTL MB-750s. The VTLs will work well on each of the speaker candidates, and I consider them ideal for the Arrakis, the Diva, the Neolith and the Orion. The Dragon and the Pendragon would raise the question of whether a lower power amp -- some SET or some push-pull 300B or something (Lamm? ) -- might be a better choice for those ribbon panels.

For cables I either will keep the Transparent cables I have, upgrade to some other Transparent model under the advisement of LL21 and Peter A, or switch to Basis Audio cables. (I find the whole cable morass unpleasant.)

 

[nc42acc]

Ron some excellent choices you have to choose from. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on each as you are able to audition them. Thanks.

I think so. In alphabetical order:

Analysis Audio Orion (with custom Mark Seaton subwoofer towers)
Genesis Dragon
Gryphon Pendragon
MartinLogan Neolith (with custom Mark Seaton subwoofer towers)
Rockport Arrakis

 

[microstrip]

I will be keeping (and upgrading) my Io. I will be keeping the VTL MB-750s. The VTLs will work well on each of the speaker candidates, and I consider them ideal for the Arrakis, the Neolith and the Orion. The Dragon and the Pendragon would raise the question of whether a lower power amp -- some SET or some push-pull 300B or something (Lamm? ) -- might be a better choice for those ribbon panels.

For cables I either will keep the Transparent cables I have, upgrade to some other Transparent model under the advisement of LL21 and Peter A, or switch to Basis Audio cables. (I find the whole cable morass unpleasant.)

IMHO, once you decide to change speakers you will have to consider seriously changing the amplifier and cables. I have lived with the VTL MB750's for ten years, they were a great match with the older Soundlab's, but the bass detail and articulation of the last generation of speakers and subs severely exposes its age. I understood it clearly the day I compared it in my system with the Audio Research REF150, that could sing tunes in the bass in a way the MB750 could not follow. Big speakers extend the bass a lot, and most systems easily loose definition in the bass.

However I understand that the MB750 is not an easy amplifier to replace if you want to listen loud in big room. Parting with it was not an easy decision.

 

[Purite Audio]

I will be keeping (and upgrading) my Io. I will be keeping the VTL MB-750s. The VTLs will work well on each of the speaker candidates, and I consider them ideal for the Arrakis, the Neolith and the Orion. The Dragon and the Pendragon would raise the question of whether a lower power amp -- some SET or some push-pull 300B or something (Lamm? ) -- might be a better choice for those ribbon panels.

For cables I either will keep the Transparent cables I have, upgrade to some other Transparent model under the advisement of LL21 and Peter A, or switch to Basis Audio cables. (I find the whole cable morass unpleasant.)

The Pendragons are a nominal 89dB at 6 ohm , I believe a 300b in whichever configig is not going to be enough to drive them properly.
Keith.

 

[bonzo75]

I will be keeping (and upgrading) my Io. I will be keeping the VTL MB-750s. The VTLs will work well on each of the speaker candidates, and I consider them ideal for the Arrakis, the Neolith and the Orion. The Dragon and the Pendragon would raise the question of whether a lower power amp -- some SET or some push-pull 300B or something (Lamm? ) -- might be a better choice for those ribbon panels.

For cables I either will keep the Transparent cables I have, upgrade to some other Transparent model under the advisement of LL21 and Peter A, or switch to Basis Audio cables. (I find the whole cable morass unpleasant.)

Two things I will never buy - Transparent and Stillpoints. As for cables, many cables to choose from, no need to have a favorite till the rest of the system is settled

 

[TitaniumTroy]

Ron in re:to my earlier post, I felt the Raal ribbon tweeter sounds more clear and transparent. Than my my Maggie, 3.6 tweeter. A friend who was with me, and is a blogger for Home Theatre Shack was also very impressed with that tweeter, and the Perfect Storm speaker.

 

[Blizzard]

Ron in re:to my earlier post, I felt the Raal ribbon tweeter sounds more clear and transparent. Than my my Maggie, 3.6 tweeter. A friend who was with me, and is a blogger for Home Theatre Shack was also very impressed with that tweeter, and the Perfect Storm speaker.

You'll have a hard time beating the Raal at any price. That speaker went up $20k as soon as they decided to sell it through a dealer network. I wonder if that means 20k more value to the end customer

 

[DaveC]

You'll have a hard time beating the Raal at any price. That speaker went up $20k as soon as they decided to sell it through a dealer network. I wonder if that means 20k more value to the end customer

That speaker is a ridiculously good deal. If you called and asked I bet you could arrange something, but the truth is the pricing is awkward. I told Ryan it should be closer to $100k and people would take it more seriously. People will be wondering how it can be ok for so "little" money... anyway, this speaker is pretty close to technically perfect with ultra low, <1% distortion. It can compete with anything.

Ron, also if you're not considering the TAD Reference 1s then your not considering what is probably the best conventional speaker in the world. I don't think there is a midrange or tweeter that can compare. Flat to 100 kHz...

And as far as horns sounding flat, that is definitely a setup issue. They have the potential to image / soundstage better than a conventional box speaker.

 

[Blizzard]

That speaker is a ridiculously good deal. If you called and asked I bet you could arrange something, but the truth is the pricing is awkward. I told Ryan it should be closer to $100k and people would take it more seriously. People will be wondering how it can be ok for so "little" money... anyway, this speaker is pretty close to technically perfect with ultra low, <1% distortion. It can compete with anything.

Ron, also if you're not considering the TAD Reference 1s then your not considering what is probably the best conventional speaker in the world. I don't think there is a midrange or tweeter that can compare. Flat to 100 kHz...

And as far as horns sounding flat, that is definitely a setup issue. They have the potential to image / soundstage better than a conventional box speaker.

He combines one of the the best tweeter's, mid's, midwoofer, and woofers together in cabinets built like tanks, and uses SOTA xover components. I don't need to even hear that speaker to know how good it will sound. And yes your right. Seems like nobody takes anything serious unless it's priced high. So might as well sell through a dealer network and double the price. His cost to manufacture that speaker is probably double something like the Vivid Giya 1.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dave, Blizzard, thank you for the suggestion! I just have never heard that speaker with the Raal tweeter.

But it is fairly clear to me that no 64" tall speaker is going to achieve the scale of an Arrakis. And since I really by nature prefer planars I just am not open to a conventional box speaker which does not, at least, have the scale of something like the Arrakis. Putting it differently, if I by nature preferred box speakers, I would buy the Arrakis and never look back. I thought both the Altair and the Arrakis were amazing. But I think I am not willing to go two shades lower in transparency versus the MartinLogan -- which is what to me the Rockports would require.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, my favorite speaker at the 2015 AXPONA, was Vapor Audio's Perfect Storm. That Raal ribbon tweeter is something special (even better than my Magnepan's ribbon tweet). They had incredible depth and detail, and the transmission line bass was great too. This may have been the best speaker I have ever heard, this coming from a big planer fan guy. Only 45K to boot


http://www.vaporsound.com/speakers/perfect-storm-black/

Troy, are you aware of the brutally vitriolic posts re Vapor Sound on other forums, w/highly disgruntled customers arguing about speakers not being delivered after more than a year on order? And other major fallings out w/the company?
Can't say it fills me w/confidence, superb Raal or not.