I've read all of that as well. My comments were about the product, and not their business ethics. You don't need to choose one or the other, I think solid products can be combined with solid business ethics as well.
The Path to Paradise . . . or the Road to Ruin?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
I've read all of that as well. My comments were about the product, and not their business ethics. You don't need to choose one or the other, I think solid products can be combined with solid business ethics as well.
Ron, here's a thought...the YG Sonja 1.3's. They can compete with the big boys (some may say they can even sleigh the Big boys, but only at Xmas, LOL) and are a little more bank account friendly. Plus, there is an excellent dealer in S.California, near you in the La Jolla area...unashamed plug for Alma Audio fits in here
Spiritofmusic, I did hear some talk about problems at Axpona. Mostly about emails not being responded to, so thanks for the heads up though.
Thanks to Matej of Mono and Stereo there is a late entrant: Soulsonic Impulse SE
80" tall
full length dipole ribbon crossed over at 550 Hz
four 12" cones (open to the back)
the drivers are mounted in an all-glass baffle
http://www.soulsonicspeakers.com/impulse_se.html
80" tall
full length dipole ribbon crossed over at 550 Hz
four 12" cones (open to the back)
the drivers are mounted in an all-glass baffle
http://www.soulsonicspeakers.com/impulse_se.html
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I'm not going to defend them on this, they have made their share of mistakes but not intentionally and hopefully they have learned from them. They have a great product and are worth checking out imo.
Also, they changed the crossover from Axpona to RMAF and greatly improved them, so if you liked them at Axpona they are much better now. The Perfect Storm sounds polished and very cohesive, it would not be embarrassed being compared to any speaker out there, and will probably beat most of them.
But for full disclosure my modded SurgeX and 20 amp PL power cable were used in the Perfect Storm system at RMAF.
Appreciate the disclosure Dave.
By all accounts the sound is stellar.
Reading btwn the lines, it looks like Perfect Storm White is custom made to order. An optimistic 4 month lead time tipped over the 12 month barrier, and still no sign of the customer's speakers. I believe at this point a real communication breakdown ensued, and the designer would only cancel the order if a substitute buyer could be found. Not forthcoming. And now the knives are out btwn customer, those others sympathetic and scathing online, and the designer who is a tad argumentative from what I can see.
I would very much like to consider them...
By all accounts the sound is stellar.
Reading btwn the lines, it looks like Perfect Storm White is custom made to order. An optimistic 4 month lead time tipped over the 12 month barrier, and still no sign of the customer's speakers. I believe at this point a real communication breakdown ensued, and the designer would only cancel the order if a substitute buyer could be found. Not forthcoming. And now the knives are out btwn customer, those others sympathetic and scathing online, and the designer who is a tad argumentative from what I can see.
I would very much like to consider them...
Ron,
In what sense are you referring to transparency? I have owned ML Prodigy's for many years, still own electrostatics, and I feel that modern box speakers, such as the Wilson XLF or even the Sonus Faber Aida, if properly amplified and tuned are not less transparent than the Prodigy.
My current preference for electrostatics is mainly a question of quality for money. I feel that with the investment in SoundLabs I can get a better overall sound according to my preferences for my budget. BTW, I have no experience with Rockport speakers and I listen a lot to digital.
Lol, sounds about right...
-4 mo was a ridiculously short lead time and should have been 1 year from the start. This was the time required to design the PS from scratch, not just build a custom version of an existing speaker design!
-Customer agreed to wait longer than 4 months, but the extension wasn't properly specified
-Customer decides at some point that he's waited long enough and wants his money back, money that was already used developing the PS, then gets emotional and angry when it was explained to him that deposits are not refundable.
-Since original customer is pissed and won't buy the finished speaker anymore another buyer needs to be found in order to get the original customer back his money. I'm very surprised Vapor doesn't have a line of customers waiting on Perfect Storms right now, but their decision to sell through dealers might not have been good. IDK, marketing in this industry is very difficult and the PS is in an awkward price range for the current economy. It could easily be a $100k speaker imo...
This whole thing was amateurish on both sides, and lack of accurately predicting actual build times and bad communication took it's toll. If the original customer would have been patient he would have one of the best speakers available sitting in his house right now for less than half the price it's going to cost retail. That, imo, would have been a much better outcome for everyone, but the customer got emotional and lost his patience, which is somewhat justifiable but not fully. It's an unfortunate incident that hopefully everyone has learned from.
Thanks for the plug, Davey! It would be great to have Ron in the store! I believe I've invited him to come down and visit us, and he did stop by our rooms at the Newport show, IIRC...
Indeed, we had more than a few people tell us the YGs are the closest thing to a planar/electrostatic they've ever heard, in terms of midrange transparency and naturalness. One of them is actually looking to upgrade from Soundlabs.
If I may, I think another contender in that category would be Mike Lavigne's Evolution MM7. We have the "little brother", the MM3, right in the front room of our store, and the dynamics are off the charts good. Andre was in the store the other day, and remarked how the MM3, while big and imposing, could sound small and delicate when the music called for that, something that I also remember Mike mentioning...
Anyway, the doors are open to Ron and everybody else
cheers,
alex
Indeed, we had more than a few people tell us the YGs are the closest thing to a planar/electrostatic they've ever heard, in terms of midrange transparency and naturalness. One of them is actually looking to upgrade from Soundlabs.
If I may, I think another contender in that category would be Mike Lavigne's Evolution MM7. We have the "little brother", the MM3, right in the front room of our store, and the dynamics are off the charts good. Andre was in the store the other day, and remarked how the MM3, while big and imposing, could sound small and delicate when the music called for that, something that I also remember Mike mentioning...
Anyway, the doors are open to Ron and everybody else
cheers,
alex
Thanks for the plug, Davey! It would be great to have Ron in the store! I believe I've invited him to come down and visit us, and he did stop by our rooms at the Newport show, IIRC...
Indeed, we had more than a few people tell us the YGs are the closest thing to a planar/electrostatic they've ever heard, in terms of midrange transparency and naturalness. One of them is actually looking to upgrade from Soundlabs.
If I may, I think another contender in that category would be Mike Lavigne's Evolution MM7. We have the "little brother", the MM3, right in the front room of our store, and the dynamics are off the charts good. Andre was in the store the other day, and remarked how the MM3, while big and imposing, could sound small and delicate when the music called for that, something that I also remember Mike mentioning...
Anyway, the doors are open to Ron and everybody else
cheers,
alex
Alex, I just read the Stereophile review of the Carmel 2 we discussed. I heard a totally different speaker in your shop.
This is probably the biggest gap between something I have heard and a formal review.
He got a few things right in my subjective opinion..the stable imaging and transparency are truly remarkable.
And yes, I was very, very impressed with the MM3. I have never heard them set up as well as you had them, and as imposing as they were
they just about disappeared.
To try and buy one costly system is always going to keep one unsatisfied. Instead of buying very experience speakers which don't provide much value, with that budget best is to get 3 systems...One stat (acoustat or summit x ) on one side of the room, one ribbon on the other, convert the stats into a multichannel, and add a WE 16a on the long wall.
You can use the same amps for the stats and ribbons. After time you could give up one of them.
Same TT for all. Each speaker will do something different from the other. Reality is all speakers suck in some area.
Collectively the speakers will cost you much less than one expensive speaker and provide much more
You can use the same amps for the stats and ribbons. After time you could give up one of them.
Same TT for all. Each speaker will do something different from the other. Reality is all speakers suck in some area.
Collectively the speakers will cost you much less than one expensive speaker and provide much more
Andre,
Thanks for the write up! It seems YG plans to show people that something was amiss at JA's, since they're going to show at CES with PrimaLuna+Carmel 2.
The MM3s weren't easy to set up, and I was messing with it for two days. I still think the rake angle was a bit off (due to my rough/uneven flooring), but adjusting the spikes on these behemoths are kinda tricky, and definitely a three-man job.
But as Kevin/Evolution showed at their room this year @ Newport, once they're dialed in, and matched with the right components, they'll sing beautifully
cheers,
alex
Thanks for the write up! It seems YG plans to show people that something was amiss at JA's, since they're going to show at CES with PrimaLuna+Carmel 2.
The MM3s weren't easy to set up, and I was messing with it for two days. I still think the rake angle was a bit off (due to my rough/uneven flooring), but adjusting the spikes on these behemoths are kinda tricky, and definitely a three-man job.
But as Kevin/Evolution showed at their room this year @ Newport, once they're dialed in, and matched with the right components, they'll sing beautifully
cheers,
alex
Yes, Ron. You should roll with me sometime down to Alma. I still have yet to hear the Avantgarde Zeros The YGs are tremendous speakers as long as you have the power (you do).
The YGs are tremendous speakers as long as you have the power (you do).Alex, here's the thing of it...I personally believe that no electrostatic can come close to a great dynamic driver when it comes time to reproduce dynamics. I have owned several 'stats' in the past...when you get away from them, only then do you really realize what it is that you have been missing. Dynamics are such a BIG part of music that when you again hear what dynamics bring to to the presentation, you wonder how you could have lived without!!.
Midrange transparency used to be superior in the 'stats', that's not really so true anymore. I believe the current crop of great dynamic speakers can equal...and in some cases even surpass 'stats' in midrange transparency.
The YG's.. and a lot of other great dynamic speakers, are IMHO far superior to any 'stat' I have heard. Including the new ML Neolith...which frankly I feel is easily bested by any number of great conventional speakers. My 2 cents and all that
Alex, here's the thing of it...I personally believe that no electrostatic can come close to a great dynamic driver when it comes time to reproduce dynamics. I have owned several 'stats' in the past...when you get away from them, only then do you really realize what it is that you have been missing. Dynamics are such a BIG part of music that when you again hear what dynamics bring to to the presentation, you wonder how you could have lived without!!.
Midrange transparency used to be superior in the 'stats', that's not really so true anymore. I believe the current crop of great dynamic speakers can equal...and in some cases even surpass 'stats' in midrange transparency.
The YG's.. and a lot of other great dynamic speakers, are IMHO far superior to any 'stat' I have heard. Including the new ML Neolith...which frankly I feel is easily bested by any number of great conventional speakers. My 2 cents and all that
I feel exactly the same way.
I have never heard a dynamic speaker sound anywhere as real as a stat.They are also much slower than a stat, a stat is so light and fast, a dynamic speaker is much slower by comparison.Alex, here's the thing of it...I personally believe that no electrostatic can come close to a great dynamic driver when it comes time to reproduce dynamics. I have owned several 'stats' in the past...when you get away from them, only then do you really realize what it is that you have been missing. Dynamics are such a BIG part of music that when you again hear what dynamics bring to to the presentation, you wonder how you could have lived without!!.
Midrange transparency used to be superior in the 'stats', that's not really so true anymore. I believe the current crop of great dynamic speakers can equal...and in some cases even surpass 'stats' in midrange transparency.
The YG's.. and a lot of other great dynamic speakers, are IMHO far superior to any 'stat' I have heard. Including the new ML Neolith...which frankly I feel is easily bested by any number of great conventional speakers. My 2 cents and all that
As for non.stat panels, an Apogee will make any dynamic speaker pale on bass and dynamism. The word dynamic in dynamic speakers is misleading, because there are horns, there are panels, and then, somewhere far down, are the slowest drivers requiring the largest distance to move, the dynamic speakers, which charge silly money for a lot of cabinet material that will always leave you looking outside in at the music. The more the cabinet, the more the price and the less the SQ
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Couple of words that you seem to have err..... Misplaced, and they are:
"In my humble opinion."
Because, imho, you are clearly not hearing what I am hearing
Given that you listen to Adele, I won't like to
Btw, my response was a parody on your earlier post
Alex, here's the thing of it...I personally believe that no electrostatic can come close to a great dynamic driver when it comes time to reproduce dynamics. I have owned several 'stats' in the past...when you get away from them, only then do you really realize what it is that you have been missing. Dynamics are such a BIG part of music that when you again hear what dynamics bring to to the presentation, you wonder how you could have lived without!!.
Midrange transparency used to be superior in the 'stats', that's not really so true anymore. I believe the current crop of great dynamic speakers can equal...and in some cases even surpass 'stats' in midrange transparency.
The YG's.. and a lot of other great dynamic speakers, are IMHO far superior to any 'stat' I have heard. Including the new ML Neolith...which frankly I feel is easily bested by any number of great conventional speakers. My 2 cents and all that
Not having as much experience with stats and panels, I didn't want to go that far
I did like what I heard, the transparency and realism was very good. But here's the thing: Avantgarde gets the bad rep for having "disconnected bass", but if anything, those stats with dynamic woofers also had incredibly disjointed bass! Sure, the woofers were adding punch where the panels wouldn't be able to, but they did so at a much slower pace! Maybe it was a set up issue (as I know could be the case with Avantgardes), but who knows...Again, IMHO, YMMV, and all that too
I do believe there's a benefit on having all drivers cut from the same cloth, like in the YGs. That's why one of the things I mostly admire on the Evolutions is the designer's capability to blend such disparate drivers into a cohesive whole. No easy feat...
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