tima's DIY RCM

[Michael Davitt]

Yes, sure - since you said please and thank you.

I've done this before but it is scattered in a few different places across four years so I will feed it to you in sections. Primary resources for you are my three articles published at The Vinyl Press (TVP) - see opening post - and this thread. While this thread is not organized, there is a lot of information here and just about everything about my (and David's) system can be found here.

The other very valuable (to me anyway) resource is the lengthy dialog I had with Neil Antin from May thru August 2020 after the publication of the original version of his paper Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records (aka 'The Book'). Most (all?) of that dialog is preserved and found after the introduction to it at the link just given (scroll down).

I will tell you up front that to use the same components and construct what David and I currently have will be pricey compared to a single-slot off-the-shelf desktop machine. The way I see it is my records ('software') are the most valuable part of my audio enjoyment, so keeping them clean and well maintained is not only worth the cost but a key critical aspect of that enjoyment.

I will break my current system down into 4 parts:

1. Wash tank
2. Wash tank filter system
3. Rinse tank
4. Rinse tank filter system.

WASH TANK - The current wash tank USC is documented in my third article about building my DIY RCM, tima's DIY RCM - follow-up #2: Compelling Changes - Improved Results, published at Bill Hart's The Vinyl Press . You can see some pictures there. For brevity I will not include pictures in this post.

Wash Tank USC: Elmasonic P 120H You will want to search the Web thoroughly for the best price.

Elma has increasingly changed the way they present information about their products on their Web site, becoming less comprehensive and informative. This chart for the P-Series may help:
View attachment 82272

Rotisserie: Kuzma RD Ultrasonic Record Cleaning kit. Likely this should be ordered from a Kuzma dealer. It is pricey. Imo it is the best designed and best made of its type on the market today. The RD is v. important in my system because it allows you to lift a spindle-full of records out of the wash tank and easily move it to the rinse tank. Another top-grade piece of gear from Franc Kuzma.

WASH TANK FILTER SYSTEM

Filter Canister Pentek 150574:
3/4" #10 3G Blue Filter Housing with Bracket and Meter Mount ~$33

Gauge Pentek 143549:
Differential Pressure Gauge for 3G Meter Mount Housings ~$53
Green (clean) 0-6 psid; Yellow (change) 6-9 psid; Red (dirty) 9-12 psid

Tubing: 3/8" ID x 50 Ft High Pressure Braided Clear PVC Vinyl Tubing Flexible Vinyl Tube, Heavy Duty Reinforced Vinyl Hose Tubing, BPA Free and Non Toxic

Pump Shurflo 8020-513-236 Pump 15vAC Power Cord 60PSI Switch 1.6 GPM
~ $140 - $190 (https://www.toboaenergy.com $142.57)
You will want to mount this pump on a board, not in a box. Neil has another pump suggestion, but for the moment I can't find my docs on that.

Filter FlowMax HP (Watts) FPP-0.2-975-DOE 2.5” x 9.75” DOE End Cap 0.2 micron absolute
~$50 (https://www.freshwatersystems.com)

Hose Barb for filter canister: x2 Hose Barb ¾” NPT x 3/8” Barb

Hose Barb for Pump: x2 Hose Barb 3/8” NPT x 3/8” Barb (nylon or plastic not metal)

On/Off Switch for Pump: BindMaster 3-Prong Grounded On/Off Switch (for pump)
~ $9

RINSE TANK

Rinse Tank USC: Elmasonic S 120H. best price I found was here

Rotisserie: Kuzma RD Ultrasonic Record Cleaning kit

RINSE TANK FILTER SYSTEM

Filter Canister Pentek 158116 ¼” #10 Slim Line

Filter Flow Max FM-0.35-975 2-1/2” x 9-3/4” Pleated Filter, 0.35 micron nominal

Tubing: Clear PVC vinyl food grade 3/8" ID intake from tank to pump, 1/4" output to filter cannister and back to tank.

Pump Little Giant 1-AA-OM
This pump is no longer made by Little Giant but is available on the Web from vendors: one two. It was original designed as a hot water pump for drink dispensers.

Pump Wiring You will need to attach wire and plug. I used this. Westinghouse Lamp Cord w/ switch

Pump Box Cantex 513371OU Junction Box

Hose barbs intake to pump 1/4"MNPT to 3/8", Nylon; discharge from pump 1/4" FNPT to 1/4" barb, brass; intake and discharge for filter cannister 1/4" MNPT to 1/4" barb, brass. Don't forget the plumbers tape.

Check a) post #142 in this thread; b) my first article on TVP for more info and pictures on building the pump; c) post #7 in this thread (which I forgot about before writing this far! )

The one thing we have not discussed in any detail is locating all this stuff for ease of use and efficient operation. David and I each have our tanks, filters, pumps, etc for both wash and rinse located side by side. David designed and we both built waterproof trays large enough to hold everything. I encourage anyone to consider this approach. I keep my drying station (two RD spindle holders) in my audio room, which is separate from the clearning station. Sometime I will post a few pictures of tray construction.

I probably left something out but this will get you started. Let us know on this thread if you have questions. But I will ask you now that you've seen the parts list and maybe looked up some stuff, do you still want to build the complete system?

​

Edit: typos.

Thank you ..this is invaluable information as I have been contemplating a filtration system, rather than throwing out my ultrasonic solution after cleaning 10 to 15 records at a time.

One other quick question do you heat your cleaning solution? I was warned against it, as not to introduce warps. But it seems, as in all other things, moderation would be the word here. Wouldn't the process accomplish more with a slightly warm solution?

Much appreciated Sir.

 

[tima]

One other quick question do you heat your cleaning solution? I was warned against it, as not to introduce warps. But it seems, as in all other things, moderation would be the word here. Wouldn't the process accomplish more with a slightly warm solution?

Yes, heating can improve the effectiveness of many surfactants. I gradually heat to 30 degrees Celsius and stay under 35 degrees C, normally no more than 32. David, @dminches , has a setup like mine and he uses an in-line radiator to keep temps steady.

I have been contemplating a filtration system, rather than throwing out my ultrasonic solution after cleaning 10 to 15 records at a time.

Filtering with a 0.2 micron absolute filter really does keep the water cleaner. As I learned there should still be a pure water rinse; that was not part of my original build.

 

[Michael Davitt]

Yes, heating can improve the effectiveness of many surfactants. I gradually heat to 30 degrees Celsius and stay under 35 degrees C, normally no more than 32. David, @dminches , has a setup like mine and he uses an in-line radiator to keep temps steady.




Filtering with a 0.2 micron absolute filter really does keep the water cleaner. As I learned there should still be a pure water rinse; that was not part of my original build.

Excellent! Thank you, now go about your day knowing you have helped a blind man to see . Cheers

 

[Michael Davitt]

Yes, heating can improve the effectiveness of many surfactants. I gradually heat to 30 degrees Celsius and stay under 35 degrees C, normally no more than 32. David, @dminches , has a setup like mine and he uses an in-line radiator to keep temps steady.




Filtering with a 0.2 micron absolute filter really does keep the water cleaner. As I learned there should still be a pure water rinse; that was not part of my original build.

Enjoy this, if not seen previously ~ Off The Record

 

[Neil.Antin]

For those that may find this of interest:

The Third Edition of the book Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records (PACVR) has just been published - Features Archives - The Vinyl Press. As before, at the end of the intro-article written by @Bill Hart is a big-red download button, and as before the book remains free. And, while you are there, check-out the new music article written by Bill Hart; it's worth reading.

For this Third Edition, most of the changes have been highlighted yellow to make it easier to see what has changed. The ultrasonic cleaning Chapter XIV has had extensive revision, most from what has already been discussed, but for those using ultrasonic tanks with bottom firing transducers you may want to check the water height, it can make a difference.

Take Care,

Neil

 

[Michael Davitt]

Kudos Tim:

I really enjoyed and learned quite a bit from this RCM series.

Also, thoroughly enjoyed ~ A Guided tour of an Improved Kuzuma Tonearm In Positive Feedback. Keep up the great work.

I appreciate your valued voice for my obsessive hobby.​

 

[tima]

Kudos Tim:

I really enjoyed and learned quite a bit from this RCM series.

Also, thoroughly enjoyed ~ A Guided tour of an Improved Kuzuma Tonearm In Positive Feedback. Keep up the great work.

I appreciate your valued voice for my obsessive hobby.​

Thank you for your kind words, Michael - means a lot to me.

 

[tima]

The Third Edition of the book Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records (PACVR) has just been published - Features Archives - The Vinyl Press. As before, at the end of the intro-article written by @Bill Hart is a big-red download button, and as before the book remains free.

This is wonderful, Neil - congratulations on your Third Edition. The vinyl loving record playing community is better for your participation in it.

 

[Neil.Antin]

This is wonderful, Neil - congratulations on your Third Edition. The vinyl loving record playing community is better for your participation in it.

Tim,

Thanks, and a shout-out to @Bill Hart - "t’s been quite a journey, but Bill Hart has been instrumental in bringing this book to ‘print’. I am, and hopefully you are, grateful for his guidance and insight that has helped guide this effort and his selfless volunteering to ‘publish’ it. In the Navy we would simply say “Bravo-Zulu.”

Take Care,
Neil

 

[thekong]

Hi All,

First, I must apologise for not having read all the posts in this thread, so my question below may have already been covered!

Anyway, I am starting to build a US cleaning system including the filtration. My question is, after the water (with additives such as wetting agent) pass through the filter after cleaning the 1st batch of records, do I need to add more wetting agent? If so, how much, same amount as in the original solution, or just a bit?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

 

[tima]

Hi All,

First, I must apologise for not having read all the posts in this thread, so my question below may have already been covered!

Anyway, I am starting to build a US cleaning system including the filtration. My question is, after the water (with additives such as wetting agent) pass through the filter after cleaning the 1st batch of records, do I need to add more wetting agent? If so, how much, same amount as in the original solution, or just a bit?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

Typically, no, however it would be good to specify your filter and surfactant if you know what they are.

Check this post for what I'm using:

tima's DIY RCM

FWIW, I use Zippo, primarily to remove stickers from sleeves, but it works wonders on paint and other similar substances. It evaporates very quickly, however, so there is no ability to soak. Where does this paint even come from?!

www.whatsbestforum.com

And here for surfactant and pictures:

tima's DIY RCM

I bought the 3ml Calibrated Eye Dropper pipettes Neil mentions, and 1 pint of Tergitol 15-S-9 from Talasonline.com ($21.75 + ship) The calibrated pipettes graduated in 1,2 and 3 ml are a perfect tool for adding Tergitol to a tank - very nice, thanks for the suggestion Neil. I emptied the tank of...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Neil.Antin]

Hi All,

First, I must apologise for not having read all the posts in this thread, so my question below may have already been covered!

Anyway, I am starting to build a US cleaning system including the filtration. My question is, after the water (with additives such as wetting agent) pass through the filter after cleaning the 1st batch of records, do I need to add more wetting agent? If so, how much, same amount as in the original solution, or just a bit?

Thanks in advance,

Michael

Michael,

As I was writing @tima responded - though I am not sure what Zippo has to do with ultrasonic cleaning (I think Tim added the wrong post - EDIT, Tim was editing his post while I was writing mine, so disregard my comment). The key item is what cleaning agent/wetting agent/surfactant are you using and at what concentration i.e., how much do you add to your tank (and what is your tank size)?

Universally you will not need to add after cleaning one-batch of records. Note that if you are only using nonionic surfactants such as @tima, then you monitor the tank total dissolved solids (TDS) with a TDS meter - Amazon.com : amazon tds meter, and refresh the tank/bath when it reads >5 ppm, <10 ppm. These low-cost TDS meters do not have the best accuracy, if you want better this TDS meter is a step-up but may not be as easy to use - Amazon.com: HM Digital 716160 COM-100 WATERPROOF PROFESSIONAL SERIES Combo Meter, 7", White/Purple : Industrial & Scientific.

Take Care,
Neil

 

[thekong]

Thanks Tim and Neil,

As a start, I am going to use a 10L tank with 1 micron filter, and plan on washing 4-5 records per batch.

As for surfactant, per Tim’s recommendation, I will be using Tergitol 15-S-9 at around 2ml for the 10L tank.

Thanks
Michael

 

[tima]

As I was writing @tima responded - though I am not sure what Zippo has to do with ultrasonic cleaning (I think Tim added the wrong post - EDIT, Tim was editing his post while I was writing mine, so disregard my comment).

Fwiw - what you saw, Neil, is a forum anomaly.

To direct someone to a specific post you can click on that post's ID number (upper right corner #) and that will show that post in your browser. Copy the current URL and paste that in a message. In that message the reader sees a formatted box as shown in my post #631 above.

When the user clicks in that box the browser will show the message you intended for them. However - the forum software sometimes takes the text it shows in the box from the first message on the page of the message you directed the user to. Another quirk of the WBF forum. Thanks for your response.

 

[rDin]

if you want better this TDS meter is a step-up but may not be as easy to use - Amazon.com: HM Digital 716160 COM-100 WATERPROOF PROFESSIONAL SERIES Combo Meter, 7", White/Purple : Industrial & Scientific.

FWIW, that's the model I use and it's very simple to use: turn on, dip, read, turn off.

 

[thekong]

Just placed an order for the HM Digital COM100 : )

 

[Neil.Antin]

Thanks Tim and Neil,

As a start, I am going to use a 10L tank with 1 micron filter, and plan on washing 4-5 records per batch.

As for surfactant, per Tim’s recommendation, I will be using Tergitol 15-S-9 at around 2ml for the 10L tank.

Thanks
Michael

Michael,

2ml/10L tank = 200 ppm Tergitol 15-S-9. This is a high concentration (higher than Tim uses since he has a larger tank) and would need a DIW rinse after UT cleaning to avoid leaving residue on the records.

If you are going to do a DIW rinse, then for a 10L tank use 1.5ml; this concentration will achieve full wetting and detergency. If you are not going to rinse, then I recommend 0.75ml/10L tank; this concentration will achieve full wetting but only marginal detergency; some very small amount of residue will remain, but 'most' people do not find it audible.

The Tergitol 15-S-9 is nonionic so what I said above wrt TDS applies.

The commonly available low cost 1-micron filters are 'nominally' rated and can pass particles as large as 5-microns. You cannot see 5-micron particles, but the stylus does. For a few dollars more you can buy a 0.35-micron nominal filter which will provide much better performance - one example is FlowMax™ FM-0.35- 975 2-1/2” x 9-3/4” Pleated Filter, FlowMax 0.35 micron (FM-0.35-975) - Aplus Water (greatwatersofteners.com). The book Chapter XIV Table XXIV provides a parts list for three filter systems at three price points. FYI - Tim and @dminches for their main UT tank have the "High" option with a 0.2-micron 'absolute' filter, but the filter price now is up to about $75.

The book Figure 58 shows a basic diagram for a filter system, Figure 57 is a picture of @dminches system showing the "High" option filter system.

Good Luck,
Neil

 

[thekong]

Thanks Neil,

I have ordered five 1 micron filters, but will certainly upgrade to the 0.35 micron once I have used them up.

Will also take a look at the book you mentioned, and consider the higher grade filter options!

Thanks again, really appreciated
Michael

 

[tima]

FYI - Tim and @dminches for their main UT tank have the "High" option with a 0.2-micron 'absolute' filter, but the filter price now is up to about $75.

Yes. Although you can find them for ~$60 at:

Flow-Max FPP-0.2-975-DOE Pleated Filter Cartridge

The Flow-Max FPP-0.2-975-DOE Pleated Filter Cartridge 0.2 micron is used to filter aqueous solutions, plating solutions, & chemicals etc.

www.toboaenergy.com

In the past I (and I believe David too) bought the FPP-0.2-975-DOE at the link below. Cost was ~ $42.
Hu

2.5

The Flow-Max HP Series Filter cartridges are cost effective, disposable, filter elements for a wide range of applications. Flow-Max HP cartridges are constructed of highly efficient pleated polypropylene filter media with extended filter area to provide high flow rates, low pressure drop and...

www.freshwatersystems.com

The water filter market seems to shift around a lot. Brands change names (buyouts?) and availability can be dicey. The Flow-Max brand is now Watts. It is unclear if is still made or discontinued although it does show in the current Watts product catalog - I'm trying to get a status. These do last a very long time - I'm still on my first one. Fine-grained or high efficiency filters such as this 0.2 micron absolute item usually have specialized use and perhaps lower demand.

Edit: the FPP-0.2-975-DOE is not discontinued

 

[thekong]

Hi All,

Thanks to you, especially tima and Neil, my first US tank is working smoothly! Now, I am getting a second tank to separate the cleaning and rinsing. I have found this 10L Chinese made tank with 40 / 120 kHz due frequencies, and heating capability, at a reasonable price. As I understand the Degritter uses 120 kHz, and suppose to clean very nicely, I am thinking this tank should be good. However, before I place the order, I would like to double check with you guys whether you see any potential down side with this?

I plan to clean with this 40/120 kHz tank and rinse with the 40kHz tank.

Thanks in advance!

Michael