Visit to Goebel company

[Oliver Göbel]

Please confirm this specification. 10,710 mm is about 35 ft. This seems improbable. Delays are often specified in units of time, not length. Did Oliver mean msec, not mm? Even so, 10710 msec is about 10,7 seconds which seems an unlikely time delay for a subwoofer. My guess is that microseconds was the intended specification. Please verify.

Goebel used to use two subs and place them right next to the speakers back then (2010).

View attachment 144912

I liked those proprietary panel speakers but Goebel chose a different way.

You published a nice foto of our exhibition system during the Munich High End show 2010. What you can see on this foto is our proprietary bending wave loudspeaker Detaille S (the panel speaker you mentioned) and as a premiere for the 2010 Munich show we unveiled our new subwoofer Baforce.
The core genes of this subwoofer model together with our tremendously further developed and improved carbon excellence bending wave loudspeaker merged together into one standing loudspeaker and became in the next incarnation the Epoque loudspeaker series and later the Epoque Aeon loudspeaker series. Which up to date we of course produce and offer. So if you liked the Detaille S set with the Baforce subwoofers, I can guaranty you will be blown away by the sound quality of our Epoque Aeon series.
By the way, we also use a lot of our proprietary bedding wave technology in our Divin loudspeaker series in order to control and dampen resonances in membranes, surrounds, spiders, voice coils, baskets, crossovers, complete enclosure constructions, ...

 

[Oliver Göbel]

Please confirm this specification. 10,710 mm is about 35 ft. This seems improbable. Delays are often specified in units of time, not length. Did Oliver mean msec, not mm? Even so, 10710 msec is about 10,7 seconds which seems an unlikely time delay for a subwoofer. My guess is that microseconds was the intended specification. Please verify.

Hello Marty,

You are right, normally the delay is specified in milliseconds. But in order to provide a more practical solution for our clients, our DSP software internally calculate this so you can specify the delay value in millimeters.

In our DSP software you can specify the delay from 0 millimeter up to 10,710 millimeters in 1 millimeter steps.
The calculation behind this is quite simple. Given that the speed of sound in air at 20°C is 343 meter per second = 34,3 centimeter per millisecond.
So our max delay of 10,710 mm is equal to max delay of 31.22 milliseconds (1,071cm / 34.3cm per millisecond = 31.22 ms).

 

[Amir]

Why I think Gobel Majestic + 6 Subwoofer is the best dynamic driver loudspeaker in the world?

I think this is not about my personal taste, this is about real performance of Gobel Majestic + 6 subwoofer.

Since 2000 I listened to many super expensive speakers in Iran and also in munich high end show but the more important thing is not listening to many speakers , the more important thing is about my focus on how my brain react to music so I find the “Dynamics” is very very important for emotional sound reproduction. There are also some other aspects that are important like low distortion, fast transient, natural and beautiful tone but most modern speakers trade off dynamics for better measurements so most of modern speakers sound dead/lifeless in comparison by horns. I think Oliver Gobel designed Gobel Majestic with perfect balance between Dynamics, Transparency, Speed and natural tone.

If you believe horn/SET is good then you should listen to Gobel Majestic + 6 Subwoofer + Vitus Monoblock amplifiers + Wadax digital + Skogrand Cables (Speaker placement by Stirling Trayle).

Many thanks to Oliver Gobel for designing Gobel Majestic Speakers.

Now my two favorite dynamic driver speakers are Gobel Majestic (+ 6 subwoofer) and TAD Reference One, both have perfect balance between different aspects of the sound.

 

[mtemur]

You published a nice foto of our exhibition system during the Munich High End show 2010. What you can see on this foto is our proprietary bending wave loudspeaker Detaille S (the panel speaker you mentioned) and as a premiere for the 2010 Munich show we unveiled our new subwoofer Baforce.
The core genes of this subwoofer model together with our tremendously further developed and improved carbon excellence bending wave loudspeaker merged together into one standing loudspeaker and became in the next incarnation the Epoque loudspeaker series and later the Epoque Aeon loudspeaker series. Which up to date we of course produce and offer. So if you liked the Detaille S set with the Baforce subwoofers, I can guaranty you will be blown away by the sound quality of our Epoque Aeon series.
By the way, we also use a lot of our proprietary bedding wave technology in our Divin loudspeaker series in order to control and dampen resonances in membranes, surrounds, spiders, voice coils, baskets, crossovers, complete enclosure constructions, ...

You’re right, I liked Detaille S back then, especially for its detailed, non-hollow sound and using a sub for each channel located right next to panels. Considering it was a panel speaker, its tone and weight were good as far as I remember. The only downside was its appearance and small size relative to its high retail price. We thought about and recommended hiring an Italian designer for the aesthetics back then. I don’t know if you did or not, but in my opinion, the size and looks of Goebel speakers match their retail price now.

 

[LL21]

Many thanks for this topic in this great forum.
I would like to quickly answer your questions and contribute to the discussion why subwoofers and especially multiple stacked subwoofers will have a fundamental positive effect on the overall music reproduction. Provided that they are perfectly positioned and adjusted. Also provided that you are using highest end subwoofers like our Divin Sovereign subwoofers.

1.) When using several stacked subwoofers you will activate the room modes much more equal. This will result in a much more linear frequency response, energy distribution and energy decay in the room. Which will lead to a much more realistic / less colored sound reproduction.

2.) The most optimal position for the main loudspeakers in the room is not always the best position for the infrasonic sub bass reproduction. By using subwoofers you are able to reach both and therefore are able to extend the frequency response down to the real subsonic areas.

3.) By using multiple subwoofers, you need less excursion to reproduce a certain sound pressure level. As the distortions are rising with membrane excursion (and that in addition not linear), it will result again in a more micro detailed sound reproduction.

Given the fact that you perfectly positioned and adjusted the subwoofers in the room and to the main loudspeakers, the sound quality advantages are not only restricted to the sub bass area. The perception is covering the complete frequency range from the deepest bass to the highest frequencies. Additionally the sound stage and 3 D sound experience will get much more detailed and natural.
And it is not a subtle difference!

Wow! Thank you very much for taking the time to address my questions and comments.

You certainly have given me a few definite things to look at and consider!

 

[LL21]

Why I think Gobel Majestic + 6 Subwoofer is the best dynamic driver loudspeaker in the world?

I think this is not about my personal taste, this is about real performance of Gobel Majestic + 6 subwoofer.

Since 2000 I listened to many super expensive speakers in Iran and also in munich high end show but the more important thing is not listening to many speakers , the more important thing is about my focus on how my brain react to music so I find the “Dynamics” is very very important for emotional sound reproduction. There are also some other aspects that are important like low distortion, fast transient, natural and beautiful tone but most modern speakers trade off dynamics for better measurements so most of modern speakers sound dead/lifeless in comparison by horns. I think Oliver Gobel designed Gobel Majestic with perfect balance between Dynamics, Transparency, Speed and natural tone.

If you believe horn/SET is good then you should listen to Gobel Majestic + 6 Subwoofer + Vitus Monoblock amplifiers + Wadax digital + Skogrand Cables (Speaker placement by Stirling Trayle).

Many thanks to Oliver Gobel for designing Gobel Majestic Speakers.

Now my two favorite dynamic driver speakers are Gobel Majestic (+ 6 subwoofer) and TAD Reference One, both have perfect balance between different aspects of the sound.

Fascinating reading! As an owner of big Wilsons with sub, I like the Rockport Arrakis…in fact, my favorite speaker of all time. That said, I have been very very impressed with AG Trio G3 with dual bass horns. And could certainly see it nudging past the Arrakis to the top spot for me.

Now thanks to your post, I am more intrigued to hear the big Goebel’s and possibly also the Noblesse plus dual sub towers. I nearly had a chance to hear Majestics but they were not available to hear the day we happened to unexpectedly be nearby.

 

[Amir]

Fascinating reading! As an owner of big Wilsons with sub, I like the Rockport Arrakis…in fact, my favorite speaker of all time. That said, I have been very very impressed with AG Trio G3 with dual bass horns. And could certainly see it nudging past the Arrakis to the top spot for me.

Now thanks to your post, I am more intrigued to hear the big Goebel’s and possibly also the Noblesse plus dual sub towers. I nearly had a chance to hear Majestics but they were not available to hear the day we happened to unexpectedly be nearby.

Thank you very much

I did not listen to big Rockport speakers so I have no idea about Rockport speakers.

 

[Tangram]

I’m glad this thread got busy again because it prompted me to look a bit more into this incredible company. Thanks guys.

 

[Amir]

I’m glad this thread got busy again because it prompted me to look a bit more into this incredible company. Thanks guys.

Thank you

All I learned from audio since 2000 Could be summarize in one sentence :
“Dynamic is very important”

Let introduce some examples:
Expert audiophiles like Romy and David prefer Horn loudspeakers, why? Because horn speakers have highest dynamics. The sound of high efficiency (for example 104db) horn speaker is very live/dynamic and is not dead.
Expert audiophiles do not like most low efficiency modern speakers.

Expert audiophiles prefer zero/low negative feedback amplifiers, why?
Because zero/low negative feedback amplifiers have highest dynamics even at higher distortion.

Expert audiophiles do not use AC filters, why?
Because most AC filters kill dynamics.

My emotional reaction to the sound depends on dynamics (across a wide frequency bandwidth).

between dynamic driver speakers I think Gobel Majestic + 6 subwoofer has the highest dynamic with most extended frequency range. The art of Oliver Gobel is finding best balance between dynamics, tone and transparency. Designing a transparent sounding speaker is not hard if you put dynamics behind other parameters, look at Tidal, Marten, Estelon, Zellaton, Magico, YG Acoustics, Wilson Benesch … those speakers are not very efficient and all of those speakers are not as live/dynamic as Gobel Majestic.

I think Oliver Gobel designed Gobel Majestic + 6 subwoofers without any compromise. The build and part quality is incredible.

I highly recommend to everyone to visit Gobel showroom in munich and listen to Gobel Majestic.

 

[Amir]

In this issue’s From the Editor, I observe that high-sensitivity loudspeakers seem to have certain sonic qualities quite apart from needing less amplifier power. One of these qualities is dynamic verve—the sense of suddenness on transients, of a more vivid projection of the music into the listening room, and of a feeling of ease on musical peaks, particularly at high playback levels. That pretty much describes the Gobel Divin Noblesse; the speaker had an exciting, visceral, upbeat immediacy that was reminiscent of a horn design but without horn colorations. In fact, the Divin Noblesse’s dynamic performance was one of its best qualities; it went loud effortlessly, reproduced transients with speed and articulation but no fatiguing etch, had virtually no overhang or smearing, and never sounded congealed even during the most complex passages.

Robert Harley


I am not fan of audio reviews but I think it is true that Gobel is very similar to good horn speakers.

 

[mxk116]

In this issue’s From the Editor, I observe that high-sensitivity loudspeakers seem to have certain sonic qualities quite apart from needing less amplifier power. One of these qualities is dynamic verve—the sense of suddenness on transients, of a more vivid projection of the music into the listening room, and of a feeling of ease on musical peaks, particularly at high playback levels. That pretty much describes the Gobel Divin Noblesse; the speaker had an exciting, visceral, upbeat immediacy that was reminiscent of a horn design but without horn colorations. In fact, the Divin Noblesse’s dynamic performance was one of its best qualities; it went loud effortlessly, reproduced transients with speed and articulation but no fatiguing etch, had virtually no overhang or smearing, and never sounded congealed even during the most complex passages.

Robert Harley


I am not fan of audio reviews but I think it is true that Gobel is very similar to good horn speakers.

This articulates what I hear from a system that includes a high efficiency (relatively speaking), low distortion speaker like the Goebel Divin Marquis or Noblesse.

To oversimplify a complex calculus, the "dynamic verve" of the high efficiency/low distortion design allows the low level nuance of the music to emerge more unscathed within the "exciting, visceral, upbeat immediacy" of the presentation. Another characteristic that I hear (and respond to in a positive way) that is critical to this synergy is a uniform power response.

Thank you for posting these thoughts. I was unaware of Harley's comments prior to reading them here.

 

[Amir]

This articulates what I hear from a system that includes a high efficiency (relatively speaking), low distortion speaker like the Goebel Divin Marquis or Noblesse.

To oversimplify a complex calculus, the "dynamic verve" of the high efficiency/low distortion design allows the low level nuance of the music to emerge more unscathed within the "exciting, visceral, upbeat immediacy" of the presentation. Another characteristic that I hear (and respond to in a positive way) that is critical to this synergy is a uniform power response.

Thank you for posting these thoughts. I was unaware of Harley's comments prior to reading them here.

Yes, there are many micro information in sound that only high efficiency (and low distortion) speakers can reveal.

 

[Elliot G.]

I know I am looked at as being biased towards Gobel and I would admit that is probably a fair critic however I ended up being the distributor because of how I felt about the speakers sound. I have been around a while and in my past was a dealer for most of the prominent brands over the last 50 years or so.
I thought these speakers wer different and different in a way that someone who grew up liking panels, ribbons, stats and dipoles could sink his mind into and enjoy. I love what they do and what they are capable of. I think they can do it all.
I did get the opportunity to hear the XXV with Subs at RH and then the Noblesse and Divin Sovereigns in his room and even though we only had a little time to set them up and listen they IMO were cleary more of what I prefer with more life, more dynamic and more IMO of what music is. What Oliver has managed to build in the new factory with the BADASS Majestics with a Sub 6 pack in a large room with great gear around it is mind blowing. It showed me again what can be possible and sent me home to try harder once again.
If you are looking for a great new speaker you should find a way to go experience that

 

[mxk116]

I know I am looked at as being biased towards Gobel and I would admit that is probably a fair critic however I ended up being the distributor because of how I felt about the speakers sound. I have been around a while and in my past was a dealer for most of the prominent brands over the last 50 years or so.
I thought these speakers wer different and different in a way that someone who grew up liking panels, ribbons, stats and dipoles could sink his mind into and enjoy. I love what they do and what they are capable of. I think they can do it all.
I did get the opportunity to hear the XXV with Subs at RH and then the Noblesse and Divin Sovereigns in his room and even though we only had a little time to set them up and listen they IMO were cleary more of what I prefer with more life, more dynamic and more IMO of what music is. What Oliver has managed to build in the new factory with the BADASS Majestics with a Sub 6 pack in a large room with great gear around it is mind blowing. It showed me again what can be possible and sent me home to try harder once again.
If you are looking for a great new speaker you should find a way to go experience that

I haven't been to the Goebel factory but I have been to your place. What you achieve there is exceptional IMO. It is easy to wax eloquent about audio and music in print or on video but the proof is in the pudding. Find a way to Bending Wave and listen for oneself.

BTW- will the WADAX Studio Player be in use in Tampa? I think I read that it might be on loan to a customer.

 

[Elliot G.]

I haven't been to the Goebel factory but I have been to your place. What you achieve there is exceptional IMO. It is easy to wax eloquent about audio and music in print or on video but the proof is in the pudding. Find a way to Bending Wave and listen for oneself.

BTW- will the WADAX Studio Player be in use in Tampa? I think I read that it might be on loan to a customer.

I will have a studio player

 

[LL21]

Thank you

I 100% prefer to have 6 Gobel subwoofers and I will not order Gobel Majestic without subwoofers.

I prefer Gobel subwoofer because the sound experience is very different. Some audiophiles believes the subwoofers are just for extra gain in lower bass but in my opinion the 6 gobel subwoofers change many aspects of the sound.
I do not know why but adding 6 subwoofers also change the midrange.

Would you prefer Noblesse plus 6-pack of sovereigns over having only the Majestic? (I am guessing yes.).

Would you prefer a Noblesse plus only 2 Sovereigns over a pair of only the Divin Majestic? Curious as to the level at which the dual subs starts to become better than the flagship main speaker…only 2 subs, 4 or the full 6.

Thank you for any guidance.

 

[gleeds]

I know I am looked at as being biased towards Gobel and I would admit that is probably a fair critic however I ended up being the distributor because of how I felt about the speakers sound. I have been around a while and in my past was a dealer for most of the prominent brands over the last 50 years or so.
I thought these speakers wer different and different in a way that someone who grew up liking panels, ribbons, stats and dipoles could sink his mind into and enjoy. I love what they do and what they are capable of. I think they can do it all.
I did get the opportunity to hear the XXV with Subs at RH and then the Noblesse and Divin Sovereigns in his room and even though we only had a little time to set them up and listen they IMO were cleary more of what I prefer with more life, more dynamic and more IMO of what music is. What Oliver has managed to build in the new factory with the BADASS Majestics with a Sub 6 pack in a large room with great gear around it is mind blowing. It showed me again what can be possible and sent me home to try harder once again.
If you are looking for a great new speaker you should find a way to go experience that

Elliot, I agree; the Gobels are fantastic speakers and hold and occupy a unique place in the market. I have heard them with Riviera and our own WerstminsterLab gear at Elliot's studio in Davie, Florida, and also at Capital Audio in 2023. Brandon Lauer played a classical piece that had me near tears. Keep at it, Elliot. Boutique brands like Gobel, Von Schweikert, Zellaton, Alysvox, Clarisys et.al have many advantages over the cartel brands, and once someone has that experience, it's a new ballgame. Onward!

 

[Amir]

Would you prefer Noblesse plus 6-pack of sovereigns over having only the Majestic? (I am guessing yes.).

Would you prefer a Noblesse plus only 2 Sovereigns over a pair of only the Divin Majestic? Curious as to the level at which the dual subs starts to become better than the flagship main speaker…only 2 subs, 4 or the full 6.

Thank you for any guidance.

I love Gobel Majestic so you can first buy It then add subwoofers after awhile.
You can start with 2 subwoofers then add more up to six.

As you know the Noblesse performance is very high but if you see big Majestic and feel it’s glory you will fall in love with it. The pictures of Majestic did not impress me but when I saw Majestic closely it was marvelous/perfect.

 

[Amir]

I believe in this market this combination is perfect:

Gobel Majestic + 6 Subwoofer
Vitus Pre/Power Monoblock amplifier
Wadax Reference Transport/DAC
Skogrand Stravinsky Cables

Speaker placement by Stirling Trayle

The last one (speaker placement by Trayle) is as important as water for life.

 

[LL21]

I love Gobel Majestic so you can first buy It then add subwoofers after awhile.
You can start with 2 subwoofers then add more up to six.

As you know the Noblesse performance is very high but if you see big Majestic and feel it’s glory you will fall in love with it. The pictures of Majestic did not impress me but when I saw Majestic closely it was marvelous/perfect.

I believe in this market this combination is perfect:

Gobel Majestic + 6 Subwoofer
Vitus Pre/Power Monoblock amplifier
Wadax Reference Transport/DAC
Skogrand Stravinsky Cables

Speaker placement by Stirling Trayle

The last one (speaker placement by Trayle) is as important as water for life.

Thank you! Very interesting.