Visit to Marc C.'s (SpiritOfMusic's) House in England

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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Bill, you know me, I like to garner opinions. And your take is v hard to argue against.

I do have the crazy notion of hanging my tt from the 9mm heavy duty steels here. Now, these REALLY don't move LOL.
Actually that isn’t a bad idea at all, Marc. I was only reading Twogoodears blog this morning where that was mentioned.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Bill, the only problem is that even if the steels are inert, you'd have to truly be fortunate not to get any play in any "cradle" type structure hanging off them. Otherwise I'm worse off potentially than I am now.

No, I'm minded that wall mounting is the clever solution. Unfortunately it's also the hardest solution to solve logistically since it by definition separates my gear, I have short ICs, and critically my Furutech sockets strip will now be in front of tt, phono, preamp.

This will take quite a bit of planning.

I'm also wary about dispensing w my Stacore from the tt (no wall shelf will support 130kg). I'll be able to use it on my pre or cdp. But it's been the key reason why my tt performs so much better here than without it back in London.

I get that the shelf arrangement means it's in effect surplus to requirements, but it's still a wrench, and calculated risk to run my tt sans Stacore.
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 25, 2015
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Marc, Why isn’t my suggestion of enclosing your annex space with a wall and locating the front-end equipment therein one of the options?

You have so much space at the end of the room that it is kind of a sin not to capitalize on your ability to isolate almost entirely your front-end equipment from acoustic feedback.
 

Stacore

Industry Expert
Feb 23, 2017
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I'm also wary about dispensing w my Stacore from the tt (no wall shelf will support 130kg). I'll be able to use it on my pre or cdp. But it's been the key reason why my tt performs so much better here than without it back in London.

I get that the shelf arrangement means it's in effect surplus to requirements, but it's still a wrench, and calculated risk to run my tt sans Stacore.
Marc, why don't you build your own shelf? It's not complicated.

FYI, we once tested our platform under a TT on a wall shelf. That was at Zontek studio in Warsaw, under his TT. TBH, when I saw the massive wall shelf, I was skeptical if the platform would make any difference at all. We made a quick measurement of the vibrations on the shelf and to our surprise there was quite some LF activity coming from the building structure. Sonic tests then confirmed that the platform did make sense on the wall shelf and the positive effects of reduced vibrations were clearly there.

Cheers,
 

DaveyF

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Aug 1, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
Marc, even though your side walls are not built of brick, I do think that a wall shelf that would hold your table ( without the Stacore) would be fine.
If..perhaps a big IF, you are able to build a wall shelf that could support both the table and Stacore, as Jarek is suggesting above, that may be ideal.
OTOH, if the weight of Shelf/Stacore/table is not sustainable, even just the shelf/table solution would seem to me to be superior to what you are dealing with now.
Like I said before, a 7meter run of ic should be no issue. Not sure if you are running balanced, but even with single ended...no problem. I would think if you are planning on situating the amps elsewhere, you may end up with different lengths of speaker cable...that would IMO not be ideal.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Ron, my record/cd/dvd/bluray shelving is in that alcove, it's just not practical to site gear there. In addition, the additional length of cables runs rules it out, and critically I don't want to be missing the first moment of an lp playing as I run back to my seat.

Wall shelf siting is becoming my preferred option. I'll just need to get a metal shop to make up something for me that will be able to support the 130kg total that my Stacored tt amounts to.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Davey, I can only go by what my cable guy recommends, and he's really advising against extra long ICs. Hence the decision for longer SCs and PCs. I can only run RCA.

Tbh, I'm reluctant to spend the significant extra funds needed to go from 1.5m SCs and PCs to 7m ones.
And with the impracticality of securing 130kg Stacored tt to a non load bearing stud side wall, I'm deciding side wall gear placement won't be my destination.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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Davey, I can only go by what my cable guy recommends, and he's really advising against extra long ICs. Hence the decision for longer SCs and PCs. I can only run RCA.

Tbh, I'm reluctant to spend the significant extra funds needed to go from 1.5m SCs and PCs to 7m ones.
And with the impracticality of securing 130kg Stacored tt to a non load bearing stud side wall, I'm deciding side wall gear placement won't be my destination.
Marc. Your cable guy is deaf. :eek: nothing wrong with running 7m rca cables. I have owned 6m rca cables from Transparent, Harmonic and Nordost. They sound the same as the 1m rca cables.
as long as your pre amp has low enough output impedance to drive the cables, you will be sweet.
 
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spiritofmusic

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XV, then it's a simple coin flip on 7m spkr cbls or 7m ICs. Nearly same cost outlay.
 
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DaveyF

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Aug 1, 2010
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Marc, a 7 meter ic is a lot easier to live with than a 7 meter sc. Usually speaker cables are also more expensive than ic’s. At the moment I am listening to an excellent ic that can compete with others at several times its price, this would allow for an inexpensive solution for you. PM me if you are interested in the cable, I don’t want to make it public just yet.
Also, I think placing your table on a wall shelf without the Stacore would be a far superior solution than having it placed between the speakers and near the floor.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Davey, thanks for the offer, but I'm v happy w my Sablon loom.

No, I'm either going to stay as is (this idea is more like a "what if...?" than priority need to change), or go for Audiophile Bill's suggestion of tt on wall shelf.

My Zus are 8' from front wall, so distance from tt is achieved, and removing the floor from the equation ticks the right boxes.

I'm just slightly limited by ergonomics in my room in that my cables are all minimal lengths, and I'd be shifting a lot of components from current position.

But wall mounting eliminates floor spring, effects of subs upon stylus, and critically means I don't have to go to the expense and potential performance drop off re longer cables.

Despite my reservations having the tt on the floor, the stylus a mere 36-48" from my subs, it's a total marvel how the Stacore Adv under it allows my tt to perform as well as it does.

My admiration for Stacore is undimmed, it's just a totally fantastic product enabling my tt to sound by far the best it has despite in effect my tt being situated in a war zone of vast springy expanse of suspended floor and deep bass frequencies originating right next to it.
 

Stacore

Industry Expert
Feb 23, 2017
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Happy 2019 Marc!! Good health to you and your close ones and many happy listening hours!

Thank you very much for the kind words about our platform. Very happy to hear it isolates efficiently in the quite challenging conditions!

Sorry for repeating myself, but if you are planning the wall shelf, I'd strongly suggest to take the platform into the account too. IMHO, this is a very good combination, if only the conditions permit: You get a reduced vibrational background by the shelf (reduced but not eliminated!) to start with, then annihilated by the platform. 150kg on a relatively small arm is not that much of a load for the wall, unless it's super weak of course. A reasonable experienced construction worker or a civil engineer should be able to tell if that's possible or not and of course it's a pain to have an idividual solution rather than buying a ready-made shelf.

Just my 2c.
Cheers,
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Jarek, yes indeed I would make up a custom fabricated wall shelf that could support the 130kg required.

My chapel walls are 9" thick and this building seems bomb proof, so it's certainly possible.

My main issue w wall mounting is the inflexibility of my gear layout, lack of additional length in cabling. My main 4x2 access hatch to the space would preclude central positioning of the tt. Additionally my Furutech sockets strip is fixed at 4' from the front wall, my Zus sound best at 8' from the wall, and the power cords to my Zus are short.

This is all precluding any straightforward reconfiguring of gear to have my tt on a shelf.

The most straightforward solution still seems to be a simple sturdy mid height single tier platform adjacent to my main rack to site tt/Stacore on.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Atm, my tt is sitting 6" off my springy floor on a Stacore Adv, effectively my stylus is a mere 3' from my Zu down firing subs.

In principle I know this can't be ideal, moving the tt makes sense, the potential uptick in lp replay is great, pushing me to considering resiting the tt, and hence the rest of the system.

Options include:

A long shot - suspending my tt on cables from my massive 9mm thick steel beams (installed as part of the room conversion). I did say this was a long shot LOL.
you are on the right track, but don't limit yourself with those beams, attach some rods and cross braces directly to the ceiling; that will allow you to locate the tt exactly where you want it and not be limited by the location of steel beams, and it will give you a broader mounting surface for stability. you could attach a metal plate to the ceiling and bolt any bracket legs to the plate.

although a bit of a pain to go this route, it will be relatively cheap and predictably high performance. the massive ceiling is likely resonance free, particularly relative to your floor.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Mike, I did momentarily consider hanging my tt off a harness. I have the structural steels for the job, in the form of the 9mm girders that we installed (seven of them at 7' centres).

I'm just a little concerned that as they hold up the roof, and my room is in this roof space that there would be a greater risk of spurious vibrations from wind and rain effects immediately outside the building.

Also, rotational forces created by the platter turning might create some issues. As you know, any build up of forces could impinge on inertness of support and create unforseen issues.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Mike, it's crazy, but I could certainly consider it.

Steels do form the perimeter of my gear area, it could be a practicality.
I could run cross braces both width and depth wise to secure an inert shelf to site my tt.

I've never seen anyone else go this route.

Indeed not many even go the wall shelf route, this I am surprised by.

I'm still not totally convinced that platter rotation won't create some counter forces, w additional unknowns of climactic pressures in room via steels to tt.

I may be over thinking this. Not the first or last occasion LOL.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Mike, I did momentarily consider hanging my tt off a harness. I have the structural steels for the job, in the form of the 9mm girders that we installed (seven of them at 7' centres).

I'm just a little concerned that as they hold up the roof, and my room is in this roof space that there would be a greater risk of spurious vibrations from wind and rain effects immediately outside the building.

Also, rotational forces created by the platter turning might create some issues. As you know, any build up of forces could impinge on inertness of support and create unforseen issues.
you could easily rig tension wires (with turnbuckles) and tune to the solidify the bracket to remove any sway. obviously those wires would be above human level.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Mike, your tt is not too far from the 4x 15" drivers of yr EA sub towers, outputting below 10Hz.

Did you ever consider siting yr tt differently? Further away, on a wall shelf etc?
 

Hi-FiGuy

Member Sponsor
Feb 24, 2015
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Marc, why don't you build your own shelf? It's not complicated.

FYI, we once tested our platform under a TT on a wall shelf. That was at Zontek studio in Warsaw, under his TT. TBH, when I saw the massive wall shelf, I was skeptical if the platform would make any difference at all. We made a quick measurement of the vibrations on the shelf and to our surprise there was quite some LF activity coming from the building structure. Sonic tests then confirmed that the platform did make sense on the wall shelf and the positive effects of reduced vibrations were clearly there.

Cheers,
I did just this. Went to Home Depot and bought two heavy duty angle braces and 1 1/4 inch thick chunk of wood, all in 40.00 USD and instantly eliminated my feedback issue and made a big difference in the overall sound. A Stacore platform would be icing on the cake.
 
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spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Sure, and interestingly the tt designer install is on a wall shelf, this is his preferred method. His sound, utilising simple squash balls isolation under tt on a simple steel/mdf wall shelf is exemplary. I'd certainly aim to go one better than him utilising my Stacore Adv in place of those squash balls.

I have found a way to do this, I just need to ensure what I put up won't break sweat supporting 130-150kg. That's a Hell of an accident waiting to happen NO LOL!
 

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