What makes Napa Valley wines so much better?

ack

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I would like to understand why, for the most part, Napa wines are so superior to others in CA, although there are fine examples from other places, e.g. Sonoma, in Verite' and others... How would you compare the climates and soil between the various regions?
 

flez007

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Ack - I understand that there are many things involved in Napa compared to, for example, Sonoma, where there are as well fine producers but quite different products,

I was involved in a project from a boutique wine producer in Valle de Guadalupe BC! Mexico, and among other things soil compared to areas where natural flow water irrigates the zone is a factor, even more than average days of sun.

Sonoma has a unique location, as well as how some of their largest producers have mixed European barrels with American barrel tops, or viceversa.

Finally, as for all CGP, marketing plays an important role in terms of customer awarness for the region. i really like Sonoma winery products, unfortunatly their current quality is reaching higher prices comoared to some years back when the gap was almost ridiculous.

Gary here also used to be involved in wine making, I am sure he has some vaild points... (i ping him already)
 

amirm

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No idea about wine but a note about growing things. We used to live in Northern California and were avid gardeners. After many trials, we found a cherry tomato that we absolutely loved. We then move up to Seattle area and of course, try to grow the same tomato. Bad idea. The tomatoes grew fine but they went from the tastiest tomatoes we had had to completely tasteless. So variations in solid type and temps make a huge difference.
 

Old Listener

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I would like to understand why, for the most part, Napa wines are so superior to others in CA, ...

Perhaps there are vineyards in Napa Valley (and the hills on either side) that are better for Cabernet Sauvignon than most other regions in California. I doubt that Napa Valley is the best place for other varieties. For example, I don't think that Napa is the best place for Pinot Noir. It might be a competitive place for Zinfandel or Viognier but not "so superior" to other areas.

Napa Valley does have very pricey wines which should appeal to audiophiles.

Bill
 

ack

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Napa Valley does have very pricey wines which should appeal to audiophiles.

Bill

Does anyone find the high end CA wines worthy of their prices, especially the Bordeaux styles when you compare them against real Bordeaux?
 

The Smokester

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Jun 7, 2010
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I would like to understand why, for the most part, Napa wines are so superior to others in CA, although there are fine examples from other places, e.g. Sonoma, in Verite' and others... How would you compare the climates and soil between the various regions?

I don't know the answer to this, but I have a friend who owns a 15 acre organic vineyard on a flat piece of land here in the Livermore Valley. His wines are quite good in general, but he usually has a "Reserve" Cabernet which is most excellent. All his wines are grown on site so there is never very much of it. I asked him what made his Reserve wines so special. He pointed to a 2 acre portion of his vineyard and said the Reserve grapes come from there. What made this part of his vineyard so special he did not say, but it looked just like the other 13 acres to me.
 

ack

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What made this part of his vineyard so special he did not say, but it looked just like the other 13 acres to me.

And you are probably right... Unlike European countries where 'reserve', 'riserva', 'gran reserve' et al are defined by law, I don't think there are such regulations stateside. In Europe at least, 'reserve' et al indicate a certain amount of time of aging is barrels and is strictly enforced. I suspect this fellow's 'reserve' wine is also aged longer.
 

flez007

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Correct.. Reserve and Grand Reserve relates to the aging process, mostly in oak barrels, unfortunatly this denomination is not that clear on French or Italian wines where it is harder to read the bottle label.

So for example, one finds Crue or Grand Crie on French wines - also related to local prizes depending on the vintage/year of production.
 

garylkoh

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flez007, you think too much of me. I planted a vineyard over 10 years ago, but I saw it more as therapy than anything else. I had retired, and it was good to be on my hands and knees planting vines :D

There's no secret - it's the combination of terrior and climate. See this as a primer on Napa Valley geology:
http://www.thewinenews.com/junjul03/feat.asp

And if you know the geography, and the location of the vineyards, it's pretty easy to always pick a good wine. However, the spanner that is thrown in the works is irrigation and fertilization - both banned in France. You want barely enough of both to keep the vines alive so that you have the smallest and most concentrated fruit.

Amir, the cherry tomatoes you managed to find in Northern California are probably suited to the soil, temp, and climate there. Up here, we have less sunshine and more rain in spring. You'll need a larger-leafed variety. If you fertilize, try increasing the concentration of potassium, magnesium and boron. Possibly up to double what you used in California. That should up the flavor.
 

amirm

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Thanks for the advice Gary. I should have noted that we quickly adjusted and found other variates that work well. Funny set of trade offs. I find gardening here much simpler, free of many pests in California. But then again our season is much shorter so it takes more skill to get good harvest of sun-hungry crops.
 

muralman1

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We love the California foothill wineries more. The variety of wineries with their variety of wines result in thousands of taste combinations. There are many soil types including red clay, volcanic, granite, and upwelling ancient river bottom. Some wineries use special fermentation tanks that treat the grapes tenderly. The best wine I ever tasted was a 2005 Petite Sirah from CG di Arie winery. Added bonuses is you make friends with the owners, the tastin is free, and the scenery is spectacular.
 

garylkoh

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Thanks for the advice Gary. I should have noted that we quickly adjusted and found other variates that work well. Funny set of trade offs. I find gardening here much simpler, free of many pests in California. But then again our season is much shorter so it takes more skill to get good harvest of sun-hungry crops.

Yes, but if you're willing to go the chemical route, some of these trade offs can be managed. My family used to run a hydroponic farm in Equatorial Singapore. None of the established nutrient mixes worked, and we had to figure out how to plant temperate crops like cherry tomatoes in a tropical climate. We even managed to grow strawberries once.
 

rsbeck

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These questions involve complex issues, some of which have been covered.

Napa is a very good region for Cabernet Sauvignon and some of it is terroir, although if you drive up Highway 29 through Yountville and St Helena, you'll find high end, highly rated cab producers right next door to the wine world's "mid-fi" producers.

You might also be surprised to find that a visit to Bordeaux will reveal that wines with different flavor profiles like Margaux and Latour are situated right next door to each other.

It also depends on the style of wine you like to drink.

You also have to factor in the fact that wine can vary quite a bit from vintage to vintage.

And wine making styles have also changed over the past few decades.

There is also a difference between wine made from grapes grown on the "floor" of Napa Valley versus Cab grown in the mountains above.

So, to be really specific, you have to ask which vintage and which producer of Napa Cab versus which vintage and which producer of French Bordeaux?

To make very general observations, Napa Cab, coming from a warmer climate, tends to produce riper fruit, but then the best vintages of Bordeaux have also been characterized by riper fruit -- part of what makes them better vintages -- better weather. Then again, wine makers have been getting more and more scientific and have learned how to trim away leaves to expose the fruit to help ripen grapes in less favorable vintages and the trend throughout the world in the past 20 years has been to pick later and later, waiting for fruit to get more fully (and some say over) ripe.

Here's another wrinkle;

Back in 1976, there was a wine competition held in France where Napa Cab was judged blind against French Bordeaux.

The judges were luminaries of the French Wine establishment, the very type of judge who would rather lose a limb than see a California wine surpass a French wine in the competition.

Guess what?

A California Cab won.

There was also a competition between California Chardonnay and white Burgundy if you were to guess that a California Chardonnay topped the ranking, you'd be right.

What we do know is that Bordeaux has a much longer history, so we know that wines produced there have established a history of aging and improving over lengthy periods.

People are still drinking these wines and some are still waiting for wines to peak that were produced 50 to 75 years ago and sometimes even longer.

The generalization is that Bordeaux will age much longer than California Cabernet and in most cases that would be correct, but some vintages of some california Cab will age longer than some vintages of some Bordeaux. If you want to buy a wine that you can stick in your cellar for 20-30-40 years and you'd like to taste the type of wine that can result, in general, you'd be better off buying Bordeaux.

If you want a warmer, bigger, fruitier, earlier drinking wine, in general, you'd favor Napa Cabernet, but even there, the best examples should really be aged at least 5 to 10 years before drinking. IMO, most people do not get to taste California Cab at its best because most people drink it too young. Most are exposed to it in restaurants and very few restaurants carry older vintages because few have the room to cellar a lot of wine for lengthy period, so you generally see very recent vintages.

If you want to get an idea of what an excellent Napa Cab can taste like with age, seek out a 1991 Chateau Montelena or 1992 Beringer Private Reserve.

These Napa Cabs are in their prime right now, will show you what California Cab can do, will provide a fabulous drinking experience and will cost you a fraction of the price of an aged Bordeaux.

Have them with a nice simply prepared Steak and your amplifier will go to 11.
 
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rsbeck

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Going further:

The French have had hundreds of years of trial and error to figure out which grapes grow best in which parts of the country due to the differences in soil, climate, proximity to ocean breezes, etc.

The French simplify this concept in the term "terroir."

This is why the naming of their wines is not based on the grapes, it is based on the region (and Vineyard) -- because everyone knows that the only red grape grown in Burgundy is Pinot Noir, so they just call it Burgundy, etc. etc.

When it was discovered that Napa was a very good "terroir" for cabernet sauvignon, grape growers and wine makers rushed in and planted all kinds of grapes there trying to make all kinds of wines.

But, Napa is not the best "terroir" for every kind of grape.

Just as in France, where they learned that Chardonnay and Pinot Noir (white and red Burgundy) grow best in a cooler region more exposed to fog and ocean breezes and grow better in different types of soil, wine makers on the West Coast began to experiment with the Russian River area in Sonoma County, Santa Lucia Highlands and Santa Barbera, closer to the Pacific Ocean, the Carneros area of Napa/Sonoma closer to the SF Bay and the Willamette Valley in Oregon and this has resulted in better, more sophisticated Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.

Like the French, who've learned that the cooler, higher altitude climate in the Northern Rhone produces better Syrah, which is called Hermitage or Cote Rotie (among others), New World wine makers have learned to plant Syrah in higher altitude, cooler climates around Sonoma County, Santa Lucia Highlands, Santa Barbera, and now cool climate Washington Syrah is getting very favorable reviews.

Southern Rhone varietals are being grown pretty successfully around Paso Robles. The Perrin family, famous for legendary Chateau Beaucastel in Chateauneuf Du Pape has partnered with Robert Haas in a venture called Tablas Creek that is producing a pretty good facsimile that has steadily improved over the past 15 years. There are others as well.

We're trying to microwave our knowledge base, trying to learn in a few decades what the French learned over many centuries.

But, the short answer is that Napa is great for Cabernet, other areas are better for other varietals and even with Cabernet, don't be afraid to venture off the valley floor. Explore cabernet from the higher altitudes like Mount Veeder, Howell Mountain, Spring Mountain.

Peter Michael makes a wonderful Bordeaux Blend in Sonoma County called Les Pavots.

One of my favorite producers is Anderson's Conn Valley, made in an area just adjacent to Napa, but with slightly different terroir.
 
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ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
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Back in 1976, there was a wine competition held in France where Napa Cab was judged blind against French Bordeaux.

The judges were luminaries of the French Wine establishment, the very type of judge who would rather lose a limb than see a California wine surpass a French wine in the competition.

Guess what?

A California Cab won.

Yes, the Stag's Leap... I had a 2008 Hands Of Time last weekend and it was lovely, but just too young. As you said, a lot of wines are made to be had young, and I think this 2008 tainted Stag's reputation.
 

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