Just to add on to what you said, the Lyra to my ears has better driver to driver coherence, better clarity and less tweeter fatigue / focus versus the Arrakis. What the Arrakis has is scale in spades.
Wilson Alexx V vs Rockport Orion
- Thread starter Chpray
- Start date
Lol , so we agree on one thing .
Balony .
I take Quality over quantity anytime .
If i compare a RP Lyra with a a standalone XVX the RP bass is much better / more defined.
XVX bass is nothing special
It’s best to limit bandwidth if adding subs, so if the XVX was designed with the intention to do so as a 4 tower setup , then it’s standalone results is academic..
I would say it a bit different - A pair of XVX will not deliver the same low frequency response as a pair of M9s. They are not equivalent in that the XVX requires augmenting its bass with subs, purpose - built or not. That's part of why the M9s are more expensive. A better compare might be the XVX versus the M7. Both can be augmented with subs (as can any speaker in reality, not just for more bass but to manage room modes).
As a data point - My system is flat down to 10 Hz augmented by 4 JLA Fathom subs carefully integrated with the mains. Upon listening, once might think they're baby Moyas ;-)
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Great to know. Would like to hear the Lyra someday. Definitely like the Arrakis a lot. Natural, effortless, pure. Massively full range for a single tower speaker. Scale-wise, my immediate reaction was that it made big Wilson Alexandrias feel more like Maxx's. That said, the Genesis 1 made the Wilson Alexandrias seem more like Sashas.
And somehow, the AG Trio G3s did something I could not gauge as easily scale-wise because I was listening to jazz rather than large-scale orchestral. But they effortlessly came across non-chalantly as creating a jazz club in a room 50' x 35' x 12' and the speakers sounded as effortless and 'normal' as if you had a pair of big speakers in a small living room. Remarkably impressive, but again did not get to hear what they sounded like recreating an orchestral piece.
Back to Arrakis...phenomenal speaker and would definitely like to hear Lyras...and even more, would really like to hear Lyra doubled-up into a new Arrakis!
I've heard lots of speakers. The XVX has the best bass I've heard. Robert Harley agrees. So does Martin Colloms. And Mike Fremer and Jacob Heilbrunn both of whom own either an XVX or WAMM. One thing I have noted about WBF is that folks' comments sometimes border on insults. My opinions are not balony. I have come to believe that Rockport owners suffer from Wilson and possibly Magico envy. The vast majority of reviewers in Stereophile or TAS own Wilsons. I respect their opinions. I don't always agree with them but I respect them. You Rockport folks and others don't like this fact and so you disrespect and downplay the obvious value of their opinions and use hyperbole very freely.
The Lyra is an outstanding speaker in its day. I would truly enjoy owing one. I am sure that I would like it a lot. But it is not a super speaker like an XVX or M9. When I bought my XVX I certainly could have bought a Lyra but it was not even a consideration. Rockport needs to make a much larger speaker. The Lyra is simply not large enough or complex enough. It is essentially an extremely well made 3-way speaker in a small but extremely heavy well made cabinet. It would never be my last speaker. I suspect that it will be upgraded fairly soon.
Years ago I negotiated for an XLF. I disappointed my dealer when I didn't follow through with the purchase. The XLF simply didn't have enough innovation over the Alexandria X-2, the only difference being a new tweeter and a cabinet innovation. I wasn't going to "upgrade" to a new Alexx, so I waited, and when I saw the XVX, it met all my requirements. I wouldn't think about purchasing a Lyra in 2024-2025. I would wait for the new Rockport super speaker if I were in the market for a super speaker. Then you guys will have something to talk about. Until then you can be as rude as you please. When you resort to personal insults like "balony, etc." it's sad.
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You obviously have a very well thought out beautiful system. I can see that you appreciate bass as I do. As I mentioned, similarly to the WAMM, the XVX is primarily designed for two stereo Subsonics to reach its full potential. The M9 or M7 are not designed primarily for subs but certainly will work with subs and sound better, especially the M7.
As far as the XVX LF capability see MC review in HIFICRITIC Volume 15 / Number 3 July - Sept 2021. I will quote some measurements:
"There were many standout results but this one caught my eye: at a truly body-shaking 110dB/m at 24 Hz and with inaudible harmonic distortion, the test set showed a superb result of less than 1.5% distortion for both second and third harmonics, and no others of relevance."
"While the output was rolling off a little below 20Hz, it still sang well at 15Hz with less than 2% THD and, with only the 5th harmonic of note, at a still excellent 0.6%, of quite inaudible distortion (1W). Of the many readings taken up to 200Hz, these at 92dB SPL, the average distortion was 0.2% of 2nd and 0.15% of 3rd harmonic, though with a momentary narrow band reversal at 100Hz to 0.1% for 2nd and 1% for 3rd."
The XVX has been the most extensively measured and reviewed statement loudspeaker in the history of the high end. It has never received anything but the highest of respect and praise. I can only add my agreement. It is a very musical loudspeaker. It's difficult to make it sound bad. I don't care much for ultra transparent loudspeakers that aren't musical. The XVX is ultra transparent and wonderfully musical simultaneously. That's why its owners and reviewers like and enjoy it so much. It will be long remembered, long after the Lyra and Orion are forgotten. It will retain its resale value. History will judge the XVX as a once in a lifetime loudspeaker regardless of the negative comments on WBF.
If the XVX Bass is so good , why do they almost always add a sub.
You yourself stated it was supposedly designed to be used with a sub .
FYI The magazine proganda doesnt work anymore with a lot of folks on WBF.
The XVX imv is a ... to tall structure which lacks both integration and bass fundament
You yourself stated it was supposedly designed to be used with a sub .
FYI The magazine proganda doesnt work anymore with a lot of folks on WBF.
The XVX imv is a ... to tall structure which lacks both integration and bass fundament
Charles spend 400 K on a pair of XVX s and 250 K on a pair of subs....
What do you expect him to say ...
Typical shoot the messenger syndrome
What do you expect him to say ...
Typical shoot the messenger syndrome
This turned into a very interesting thread! I have heard numerous Wilson Audio speakers, Alexx and up, with a variety of uber high end components. My wife cared for none of them and I only liked the Alexx IV powered by a Mephisto. Other than that one combo, I am ready to leave after 2-3 songs. To me, they are just not right…there is a harshness I hear.
Rockport Technology, I have heard everything except the Lyra and find them incredible musical. I can, and have, listened to a variety of Rockport speakers for hours. Is their low end as good as the equivalent Wilson Audio? I don’t know but it makes no difference if I don’t like the overall sound. This opinion was made when I REALLY wanted a pair of Sabrinas or, somehow afford, Sashas! Instead, I bought Rockport Atrias, then Aviors, and now I am loving my Cygnus.
To my ear, Rockports make music whereas Wilson Audio makes speakers. I know folks who love their Wilson Audio speakers and more power to them. This thread needn’t get hostile. Different folks = different likes.
Rockport Technology, I have heard everything except the Lyra and find them incredible musical. I can, and have, listened to a variety of Rockport speakers for hours. Is their low end as good as the equivalent Wilson Audio? I don’t know but it makes no difference if I don’t like the overall sound. This opinion was made when I REALLY wanted a pair of Sabrinas or, somehow afford, Sashas! Instead, I bought Rockport Atrias, then Aviors, and now I am loving my Cygnus.
To my ear, Rockports make music whereas Wilson Audio makes speakers. I know folks who love their Wilson Audio speakers and more power to them. This thread needn’t get hostile. Different folks = different likes.
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Yeah, the hostility and defensiveness are misplaced. Everyone hears differently, are willing to overlook some shortcomings, can't deal with other shortcomings, and all speakers and systems have shortcomings. Wilson and Rockport both make excellent speakers that are the bees knees to some, and not so much to others. Enjoy what you enjoy and drop the need for "best" or converting others. Lots of good options out there.
IMHO, the big Wilsons typify the Americana sound if there is such a thing.. big and bold, dynamic, and lots of bass. A bit rough around the edges.. )
wanting big (confusing with cars), easily available like Coke and Pepsi so that you don't have to do much research, and boom boom music
The real problem is not the bass, but the large distance between the two midwoofers. This makes the frequency response between 200 and 800 Hz so wavy. This can be compensated for with a subwoofer. The sub not only extends the frequency response downwards but also stabilizes the lower midrange for the voices and gives instruments more fullness. This creates a stable stage image. This is why a Wilson Sabrina plays much more homogeneously than large models, because the drivers are very close together and create an almost point sound source. You can see this in the straight frequency response.
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Interesting...do you like the classic D'Appolito designs where cones are separated...and in the case of towers, separated by a distance? Rockport Arrakis, Dynaudio Evidence Master, Peak Consult Dragon?
Im making a new model currently with a side firing 11 inch woofer ( upper woofer from the picture ), placed very close to the mid and almost on the same level as the mid as to create as much of a point source possible .
The XVX has an additional unit compared to the Alexandria XLF which makes it a to tall structure imo.
It stretches out the sound stage to much , the Alexandria was already borderline imo but worked quite well
The XVX has an additional unit compared to the Alexandria XLF which makes it a to tall structure imo.
It stretches out the sound stage to much , the Alexandria was already borderline imo but worked quite well
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no. if you have read what I have described you know. if the distance between the midrange speakers is too large you will get a frequency response like the course of a stock exchange price (valley and peaks).
In a “real” D’Appolito arrangement, the distance between the two membrane centers of the midrange drivers must not be greater than two-thirds of the wavelength of the crossover frequency of the midrange and tweeter. Then it works perfect.
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