Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[Folsom]

Tangggg, my man, I think you're describing what you hear in person because...

Video 1 is more flat, volume doesn't change much. It's sorta dry. But nuance of violin character is there. You can read the music more for violin (this is what I think Ked is mostly noticing, it sounds like dynamics maybe/sorta but volume isn't moving).

Video 2 gets much louder, piano is way more noticeable. Sound is a bit warmer, less echo/hollow sound, easier to hear in some ways, but also more aggressive in others as the volume changes. It doesn't sound as nuanced, but I would not drive right into "wrong" about that.

I think the strings should be louder than the body of violin, it's how they work. I like noticeable paino. Here's the thing, I suspect Video 2 was really hard on phone so some things do not come across well. Also where is the line between nuanced and clinical? I could not say for sure Video 1 isn't more clinical in person, as it does sound like Video 2 has some characteristics of being more emotional. IME sometimes videos like 2 don't translate "clairty" etc, in fact they do big disservice to it, and yet somehow videos like 1 may make it seem much better than it is in person. Nuances and resolution aren't always so transferable because phones can only read big volume sometimes.

So... I'm just saying what I hear. I'm extremely impartial to these different things under the amps. Yet I still think floor or floor+daiza will be the most interesting. Who needs pilates with stereo gear?

P.S. still curious about trumpet sax, maybe it's just the pressing?

 

[bonzo75]

I wrote at midnight last night. To clarify, flat is not in terms of soundstage. It is one toned and doesn't go through a range like notes do, hence I quickly said flat.

My comments on the previous Bap video tang had posted 4 days ago got deleted in the furore that followed. What those comments said was that he had posted the Bap initially on YouTube, and I told him on WhatsApp it was awful. At that time, he had not told me it had daiza under, I did not know then. I had also sent him links to the piano videos of his I preferred.

Anyway, I got to hear the Bap without, and the harmonics and nuances are on more in the video.

 

[Folsom]

I wrote at midnight last night. To clarify, flat is not in terms of soundstage. It is one toned and doesn't go through a range like notes do, hence I quickly said flat.

My comments on the previous Bap video tang had posted 4 days ago got deleted in the furore that followed. What those comments said was that he had posted the Bap initially on YouTube, and I told him on WhatsApp it was awful. At that time, he had not told me it had daiza under. I had also sent him links to the piano videos of his I preferred.

Anyway, I got to hear the Bap without, and the harmonics and nuances are on more in the video.

Tonally flat... that's what you're saying. Because when I think flat I think volume. I agree that the tone of 2 is more homogenized. But I'm not sure whether it's the stereo or video - I say that just because I've had the experience myself of tone not translating at all.

 

[Tango]

I don't recall saying that. I did say that I wondered about a Daiza on top of the CMS shelf

You are right Steve. The Daiza should not be on CMS.

I wrote at midnight last night. To clarify, flat is not in terms of soundstage. It is one toned and doesn't go through a range like notes do, hence I quickly said flat.

My comments on the previous Bap video tang had posted 4 days ago got deleted in the furore that followed. What those comments said was that he had posted the Bap initially on YouTube, and I told him on WhatsApp it was awful. At that time, he had not told me it had daiza under, I did not know then. I had also sent him links to the piano videos of his I preferred.

Anyway, I got to hear the Bap without, and the harmonics and nuances are on more in the video.

The Borsendorfer now sound like a Bosendorfer now Ked.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, tonally flat.

You will never be able to say accurately from the video. Videos should be used to listen to something and verify with the person in the room what you hear. If Tang said that a certain attribute he is hearing as X in the room is not showing up in the video or showing up as Y, I would accept that.

Stuff to this effect was also mentioned on the video thread that Ron started but the anti video brigade made it appear that the pro video guys do complete analysis by video

 

[Tango]

I think Tang needs to do 100 push ups in between platform changes. Pretty soon, this is going to be audiophile aerobics.

I like your comments most. 30 push ups and 50 sit ups between changes make me healthy audiophile.

 

[ddk]

Tangggg, my man, I think you're describing what you hear in person because...

Video 1 is more flat, volume doesn't change much. It's sorta dry. But nuance of violin character is there. You can read the music more for violin (this is what I think Ked is mostly noticing, it sounds like dynamics maybe/sorta but volume isn't moving).

Video 2 gets much louder, piano is way more noticeable. Sound is a bit warmer, less echo/hollow sound, easier to hear in some ways, but also more aggressive in others as the volume changes. It doesn't sound as nuanced, but I would not drive right into "wrong" about that.

I think the strings should be louder than the body of violin, it's how they work. I like noticeable paino. Here's the thing, I suspect Video 2 was really hard on phone so some things do not come across well. Also where is the line between nuanced and clinical? I could not say for sure Video 1 isn't more clinical in person, as it does sound like Video 2 has some characteristics of being more emotional. IME sometimes videos like 2 don't translate "clairty" etc, in fact they do big disservice to it, and yet somehow videos like 1 may make it seem much better than it is in person. Nuances and resolution aren't always so transferable because phones can only read big volume sometimes.

So... I'm just saying what I hear. I'm extremely impartial to these different things under the amps. Yet I still think floor or floor+daiza will be the most interesting. Who needs pilates with stereo gear?

P.S. still curious about trumpet sax, maybe it's just the pressing?

I believe Tang was careful and diplomatic choosing this track for comparison purposes. This is a difficult track because the violin is recorded too hot, all the silver in his system and with very little else going on in that section distinguishing between the two videos is very difficult unless you know the recording and the system well. This way he gets away with you guessing and him not upsetting anyone, this is Khun Tang.

david

 

[Folsom]

Eh, Silver makes everything different.

I'm just saying what I hear, if it has any benefit to him then that's nice. If not? Meh, whatever.

 

[bonzo75]

I believe Tang was careful and diplomatic choosing this track for comparison purposes. This is a difficult track because the violin is recorded too hot, all the silver in his system and with very little else going on in that section distinguishing between the two videos is very difficult unless you know the recording and the system well. This way he gets away with you guessing and him not upsetting anyone, this is Khun Tang.

david

It has been only 4 days since Tang upset the whole forum

 

[Taiko Audio]

You are right Steve. The Daiza should not be on CMS.

I have searched our archive, you are the first to try them with CMS. So this is valuable data for us. Unfortunately I have exceeded my family's tolerance after almost a full month of travelling, otherwise I would've offered to come over to assist in all the lifting

 

[tima]

" In my world it's more about having everything. Micro/macro dynamics, timbre/tonality, layered 3D holographic soundstage, clear articulate textured bass, clear accurate top end, full bodied room filling, wall of sound. I get all of these in spades WITh the Diazas in place."

I at the moment I agree with above statements but am questioning the tonality/timbre and textured bass aspects. The bass to me at this point is clear and articulate as Bob said. But textured?

I lost track of the ins and outs.

What is/was the CMS doing or not doing that is no longer appealing?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Those crop circles are fibonacci progressions to spread out resonance modes, they completely remove modes between 4 and 8KHz.

I hope I don't enflame something here but I have to correct this as it is inaccurate, I was travelling while posting this. I just checked my notes from a few years back. The cutouts address modes lower in frequency associated with natural wood resonance. The foam inserts address the higher frequency modes.

I thought of an easy to understand analogy. Sound transports in wood like it does in your room, with 2 mayor differences, it is damped, it won't reach as far as in free air, this damping is frequency dependant. It also gets amplified if certain frequencies excite the material modes. The speed of sound is different. So you can somewhat apply the same calculation as when you would calculate room modes, only change the speed of sound variable. Going from there you can see why making cut outs changes resonant behaviour like it would do if you place walls somewhere in your listening room, the room modes would change. There is even more to this but I think it makes it easier to understand why we do it.

 

[Tango]

I lost track of the ins and outs.

What is/was the CMS doing or not doing that is no longer appealing?

Now I have ML3 on the Daiza and directly on the floor. Noticable differences I am attracted to are:

1) Improved clarity over CMS.
2) My sound used to have tonality skewed upward. Bonzo used to tell me my cello sound less like a cello. Now not on CMS tonality becomes balanced. The cello is cello. Sax is sax.
3) Ambient of the recording venue is more evident.

I never had amps not on CMS and never thought some aspects of my sound were diminished in some degree. I cannot say the Daiza is totally responsible for the improvement because I never put amps on bare floor. I will try putting the amps directly on floor without any platform like Micro said. Then will know.

 

[spiritofmusic]

This is like the bit of the recipe/cooking instructions that says "...and stir well..."

 

[Tango]

This is like the bit of the recipe/cooking instructions that says "...and stir well..."

Marc. Man. I like you. You are a unique character. But pls, do us all a favor.

 

[bonzo75]

I have heard the

Now I have ML3 on the Daiza and directly on the floor. Noticable differences I am attracted to are:

1) Improved clarity over CMS.
2) My sound used to have tonality skewed upward. Bonzo used to tell me my cello sound less like a cello. Now not on CMS tonality becomes balanced. The cello is cello. Sax is sax.
3) Ambient of the recording venue is more evident.

I never had amps not on CMS and never thought some aspects of my sound were diminished in some degree. I cannot say the Daiza is totally responsible for the improvement because I never put amps on bare floor. I will try putting the amps directly on floor without any platform like Micro said. Then will know.

Can you please post videos so rest of the forum can approve your hearing

 

[spiritofmusic]

No problem, Tang. It was meant to be taken light heartedly. I thought you were into cooking, surely the analogy holds.

Happy to comply.

 

[bonzo75]

Marc. Man. I like you. You are a unique character. But pls, do us all a favor.

Never seen so many understatements put together.

 

[Tango]

I have heard the


Can you please post videos so rest of the forum can approve your hearing

I can post video. But "Forum can approve your hearing." Really? What the "forum" perceive of me or my hearing don't mean shit to me.

 

[bonzo75]

I can post video. But "Forum can approve your hearing." Really? What the "forum" perceive of me or my hearing don't mean shit to me.

That's a joke. Marc put you in a bad mood