Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[Chop]

Agree completely. Kind of makes you wonder whether this "you need 15k cables to get good tone" might just be an elaborate con...

 

[PeterA]

Tang, I can completely relate to your story. When one hears it he knows. There is that something, that magic even when things are not optimal that draws you in and makes you realize something is truly special.

That magic is what I heard with the midrange of the ML2 and Vitavox in ddk’s small room. I kept sneaking in there before breakfast for a listen. That is when I knew I had to have this combination.

I hope you bought that cartridge.

 

[ddk]

Funny we talk so much in various threads about how tone is the essence of gold standard sound. Tone is such an essence that cable manufacturers base their design philosophy of their top of the line $15,000 a meter cable on. Series after series. Never reach the end. Yet "the tone" that I heard and hope more people had a chance to hear came from a combination of old audio parts passing signal via $200 diy copper Siemens wire with some silver.

We don't call it the Golden Era of audio for nothing, I'm happy you got a taste of what it can be when everything is setup right and with proper vintage components.

david

 

[jeff1225]

I am interested in Neumann cart. There is a black one pop up in the neighborhood so I went to hear how it is. It is a black Neumann DST62. I really didn't know what to expect. The place I went is more like a workshop of vintage audio...not setup for listening. So many stuff laying around. Ked would love this workshop. The place is owned by Mr.Yanyong, a vintage procurer. He finds stuff for Mr.T who possibly the biggest audiophile in Thailand, one of ddk's customer too. I listened the black Neumann with two different WE horns. The amps were Kondo Gakuoh. Pre also Kondo. DIY phono with both WE 618B and Neumann BV 33 step up. TT was 930 with banana arm. Although I could only hear some extraordinary aspect of sound from this cart due to improper setup, it was more than enough to trigger me to put this cart on my "must-have" list. The speakers were out of place enough to not have any sound stage. The bass had no articulation, etc. Orchestra was unlistenable. I could only listen vocal and solo violin. But boy those vocal and violin were beyond my system. It had "the tone" "the presence" "the soul" that once heard define the true meaning of EE. I was just thinking if these gears were in my room set up properly. How great it could be. Of course I was hearing the system not just the cart. But Yanyong also played the Neuman replica that he thought sounded excellent. It was not in the same league as the black Neumann and definitely no "soul". Tbh I don't think if I had this Neumann in my system it will sound this good. My speakers cannot produce this remarkable midrange. I also found that the 618B was detrimental to get this tone-presence-soul package. When we switched step up to BV 33, it sounded like a different Neumann. Great vintage can really be beyond the high end.

View attachment 85123

Great write up Tang. Vintage horns in your future?

 

[Tango]

Great write up Tang. Vintage horns in your future?

Yes. The Klangfilm Eurodyn.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I am interested in Neumann cart. There is a black one pop up in the neighborhood so I went to hear how it is. It is a black Neumann DST62. I really didn't know what to expect. The place I went is more like a workshop of vintage audio...not setup for listening. So many stuff laying around. Ked would love this workshop. The place is owned by Mr.Yanyong, a vintage procurer. He finds stuff for Mr.T who possibly the biggest audiophile in Thailand, one of ddk's customer too. I listened the black Neumann with two different WE horns. The amps were Kondo Gakuoh. Pre also Kondo. DIY phono with both WE 618B and Neumann BV 33 step up. TT was 930 with banana arm. Although I could only hear some extraordinary aspect of sound from this cart due to improper setup, it was more than enough to trigger me to put this cart on my "must-have" list. The speakers were out of place enough to not have any sound stage. The bass had no articulation, etc. Orchestra was unlistenable. I could only listen vocal and solo violin. But boy those vocal and violin were beyond my system. It had "the tone" "the presence" "the soul" that once heard define the true meaning of EE. I was just thinking if these gears were in my room set up properly. How great it could be. Of course I was hearing the system not just the cart. But Yanyong also played the Neuman replica that he thought sounded excellent. It was not in the same league as the black Neumann and definitely no "soul". Tbh I don't think if I had this Neumann in my system it will sound this good. My speakers cannot produce this remarkable midrange. I also found that the 618B was detrimental to get this tone-presence-soul package. When we switched step up to BV 33, it sounded like a different Neumann. Great vintage can really be beyond the high end.

View attachment 85123

Yes sir. the neumann is already a number. You probably know that only 900 of them were built. is as rare as winning the lottery. there was still a small series of dst 62 b produced according to the number of pieces is not known to me. $ 5,000-9,000 in good condition.

 

[Solypsa]

I remember reading that Thomas Mayer likes to sit outside on his balcony and listen to his system, which is now in 'another room', when testing his designs. Sometimes we sit in the listening chair and lean forward and squint our eyes thinking we must catch some fleeting detail based on a change here or there but when the sound is right we can be across the hall and know it. My opinion anyway....

Tang- do you foresee using the Neumann on your 927 or the AS? Both probably . Eurodyne now thats exciting!

 

[jeff1225]

Yes. The Klangfilm Eurodyn.

Very exciting.....When can we expect them to be in your system?

 

[PeterA]

Someone should start a poll in the vintage versus modern speaker thread for Wilson WAMM or Magico M9 versus Siemens Bionor, big WE, or Klangfilm Eurodyn. Which solicits more passion and why? Legends proven over time versus the current SOTA.

 

[Al M.]

Someone should start a poll in the vintage versus modern speaker thread for Wilson WAMM or Magico M9 versus Siemens Bionor, big WE, or Klangfilm Eurodyn. Which solicits more passion and why? Legends proven over time versus the current SOTA.

Since hardly any one person has heard *all* of these, a contest of passion seems futile. It's hard to be passionate about something unknown.

I'm passionate about my speakers. I've heard them many, many times .

 

[PeterA]

Since hardly any one person has heard *all* of these, a contest of passion seems futile. It's hard to be passionate about something unknown.

I'm passionate about my speakers. I've heard them many, many times .

Methinks you and David are laughing for different reasons.

My point was basically that Tang did not write after hearing the Neumann cartridge that he was going to rush out to get the big Magico or the big Wilson. We read the old reports from Munich and there is passion, real passion for the western electric and there are reports of people wanting to make the pilgrimage to Utah.

It’s not a contest. It is simply a poll to reflect interest in what people want to hear and experience.

Perhaps we are now living in the second coming of the golden age.

 

[Folsom]

I remember reading that Thomas Mayer likes to sit outside on his balcony and listen to his system, which is now in 'another room', when testing his designs. Sometimes we sit in the listening chair and lean forward and squint our eyes thinking we must catch some fleeting detail based on a change here or there but when the sound is right we can be across the hall and know it. My opinion anyway....

Tang- do you foresee using the Neumann on your 929 or the AS? Both probably . Eurodyne now thats exciting!

Well I cannot speak for the sound of Thomas Mayer… 1000% on a good stereo sounds good even not in front of it. If I had to go back to a stereo that didn’t do that… I’d only listen for design work on equipment, not for pleasure but on rare occasions and probably never at home.

 

[ddk]

Since hardly any one person has heard *all* of these, a contest of passion seems futile. It's hard to be passionate about something unknown.

I'm passionate about my speakers. I've heard them many, many times .

Don’t be so sure Al, there are people who not only heard but own/owned most if not all the top vintage speakers !

david

 

[microstrip]

Someone should start a poll in the vintage versus modern speaker thread for Wilson WAMM or Magico M9 versus Siemens Bionor, big WE, or Klangfilm Eurodyn. Which solicits more passion and why? Legends proven over time versus the current SOTA.

Peter,

Why carrying such poll in this forum? Just to remember us of how few people in WBF have listened to vintage in adequate conditions? Yes, all those who do not prefer vintage never listened to it in such conditions!

Polls can be fun and informing if they have a reasonable number of votes and allow analysis of distribution. As far as I remember the only polls that got a statistical value were on the Taiko digital server (137 votes) and analog versus digital around 2015 (139 votes) .

BTW, I prefer people opinions and reports to polls and comparisons between apples and oranges,

 

[PeterA]

Peter,

Why carrying such poll in this forum? Just to remember us of how few people in WBF have listened to vintage in adequate conditions? Yes, all those who do not prefer vintage never listened to it in such conditions!

Polls can be fun and informing if they have a reasonable number of votes and allow analysis of distribution. As far as I remember the only polls that got a statistical value were on the Taiko digital server (137 votes) and analog versus digital around 2015 (139 votes) .

BTW, I prefer people opinions and reports to polls and comparisons between apples and oranges,

Micro,

This is Tango’s thread where anything goes. It was a joke. I used to be much more serious too.

 

[microstrip]

Micro,

This is Tango’s thread where anything goes. It was a joke. I used to be much more serious too.

If anything goes, here it goes. Some though provoking from Martin Colloms in Stereophile, concerning his short lived SET enthusiasm:

(...) "Without in any way seeking to diminish Dick Olsher's informative review of the Cary CAD-805 single-ended tube amplifier, I submit that we have here a case of the "falling in love" phenomenon. Believe me, it's all too easy to fall in love with audio equipment when it elicits the right kind of emotional response when playing great music. But love affairs with audio gear rarely last as long as those with people. Eventually, that emotional response becomes increasingly familiar, weakening until it's possible for the listener to take notice of a new audio suitor.

Dick identified something in his review which many reviewers have been aware of for some time now: If you choose, either deliberately or by default, to focus your attention on one area of the audio spectrum—particularly the vital midrange—then magical, if limited, results are indeed possible. After all, the midrange is where most speech and music happens; the rest could be largely considered window dressing." (...)

It is worth reading it all at https://www.stereophile.com/content...-monoblock-power-amplifier-martin-colloms-594 . Surely I disagree with his views considering that ELS63 are the SET equivalent of speakers - IMHO the ESL63 are the best speaker in the world!

 

[Al M.]

Don’t be so sure Al, there are people who not only heard but own/owned most if not all the top vintage speakers !

david

*And* the WAMMs *and* M9 (under favorable circumstances)? That was my point.

 

[tima]

This is Tango’s thread where anything goes.

I thought it was Bonzo's thread?

...start a poll ..vintage versus modern speaker ... which solicits more passion and why?

Who has switched from vintage to modern and vice versa - forget the why.

 

[Al M.]

Methinks you and David are laughing for different reasons.

No doubt about that .

My point was basically that Tang did not write after hearing the Neumann cartridge that he was going to rush out to get the big Magico or the big Wilson. We read the old reports from Munich and there is passion, real passion for the western electric and there are reports of people wanting to make the pilgrimage to Utah.

Well, Bobvin for example seemed to be very passionate about the M9s after hearing them. Some Wilson owners are very passionate about their speakers. Passion is not just on one side.

 

[microstrip]

And the WAMMs and *M9* (under favorable circumstances)? That was my point.

IMHO it is manufacturer duty to distribute and exhibit their products. Referring to products that are not available to listen in a dealer network in a poll post would be meaningless, even when joking.