Zero Distortion: Tango Time
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i know we are taking this thread off the rails, but it's Tang's thread and he did it, so must be ok?
thank god i have only changed speakers once in 14 years. the last speakers, the MM3's, only had 6 crates, and i did break those wooden crates down and store them in my space. but 14 crates was just too much.
as far as my dealer storing these crates; he already has so much stuff stored not sure we would ever find them again if he had them.
the most likely occurrence for me is that it will be my kid's problem to ship my speakers to a new owner, so i suppose i will leave instructions.
Nothing is off track in this thread if it is about our actual living experiences and we have some fun sharing it Mike. I dont remember how many wooden crates I saw on the truck when my Cessaro were delivered to me. Definitely no less than your MMs. I didnt have a forklift at the office at that time. They were too darn heavy. We (actually cant say we since I was just watching eating Lay's when they were moving them) had to uncrate each pieces on the truck and snail pace hand lifting each up three stories high with distance of 50 meters from the truck. My brother, co-business owner, saw too many boxes, crates of my toys not only audio but also car parts too at the factory taken too much space of warehouse so he ordered the workers to thow out all of them. Now I have a room up on rooftop storing audio boxes with a lock
. Some people like seeing a lot of pieces of audio component on the rack. I think that really looks audio nerdy. I wish the brand of gear I am interested in come in less boxes. One box for each function will be great.Tang
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
But Tang, there is method to the manufacturers' madness for the boxes however it does get complicated with cables and power cords
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Here is my home system. A Yamaha Disklavier Enspire self-play piano. I could stream music from Yamaha and the piano would play for me. No horn-SET, SS-cones gonna beat my system here . It came with a satellite speaker and a sub. I could play songs with other instruments through them while the piano plays real. The sound is surprisingly lively like I listen to a trio in a hotel lobby. The bass from the sub is no good..maybe I replace it with Magico sub. Ddk shaked his head and asked if pure digital is my natural sound these days? I said it is only half digital..and half real. Anyone crazy stupid with no room for hiEnd in the house like me should have one. You can do Kareoke with it too.
Kind regards,
Tang
. It came with a satellite speaker and a sub. I could play songs with other instruments through them while the piano plays real. The sound is surprisingly lively like I listen to a trio in a hotel lobby. The bass from the sub is no good..maybe I replace it with Magico sub. Ddk shaked his head and asked if pure digital is my natural sound these days? I said it is only half digital..and half real. Anyone crazy stupid with no room for hiEnd in the house like me should have one. You can do Kareoke with it too.Kind regards,
Tang
Is it because you dress even sexier than her?Kodamo san,
Yuja Wang would be in tears if she saw me play.
Tang
Vlad makes significant margin selling very inexpensive Russia tubes for a lot of money. It's his business model to strongly encourage you to buy tubes from him.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
To each our own Jeffrey as I totally disagree. Vlad knows what tubes sound best with his equipment. How would you know what significant margin he makes. . Tell me what tube seller doesn't make a profit.
my 6 x 4 tubes were a grand total of $70 shipped
FWIW he uses military grade tubes which lately have been difficult to find but nonetheless he has measurements on every piece of equipment that he sells and has "matching" tubes for each component. Wilson Audio does the same
Steve,
You have posted 3 times in the last few days on two threads that Vlad strongly encourages people to buy the tubes from him. Obviously this is important information that you need to get out to the public.
Simply put, Vlad charges $110 for 6C33C tubes you buy from him. You can buy four 6C33C tubes on eBay for $92 from multiple re-sellers. Vlad tests the tubes and matches them to your amp. He adds value, but this is obviously a way from him to generate additional revenue on amps and preamps. There is nothing wrong with this, it's capitalism.
Please PM me in the future if I post anything that you think is remotely negative of Lamm products. I'd hate to be accused of "disseminating false information." Consider me well warned to be more careful on your forum.
Unsubscribed.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jeffrey
you make a correct statement about Vlad recommending buying tubes from him and your significant margin amounts to $18 per tube. For me that is not a huge price to pay to have him send me a totally matched set specific for my component. I can assure you that the other tube vendors do not do this. That was my only point and you seem to have confirmed it by showing the difference in price. Vlad also highly recommends a back up set for each component. When a tube goes down he requests that you remove the entire set of those tubes and use your backup set. When you send the tubes back to Vlad he tests every one and sends you back a perfectly matched tube for the one that went down. For me that is worth the few extra dollars to be certain I have the best tube in my system. He has measurements of every component he has made. For me that is the security blanket for which I will happily pay an extra $18 per tube. Don't let your feathers get ruffled. I have used Lamm gear for the past 15 years and have never had a reservation buying tubes from him
you make a correct statement about Vlad recommending buying tubes from him and your significant margin amounts to $18 per tube. For me that is not a huge price to pay to have him send me a totally matched set specific for my component. I can assure you that the other tube vendors do not do this. That was my only point and you seem to have confirmed it by showing the difference in price. Vlad also highly recommends a back up set for each component. When a tube goes down he requests that you remove the entire set of those tubes and use your backup set. When you send the tubes back to Vlad he tests every one and sends you back a perfectly matched tube for the one that went down. For me that is worth the few extra dollars to be certain I have the best tube in my system. He has measurements of every component he has made. For me that is the security blanket for which I will happily pay an extra $18 per tube. Don't let your feathers get ruffled. I have used Lamm gear for the past 15 years and have never had a reservation buying tubes from him
I will address only the technical aspects. The 6C33C is one the most critical tubes in terms of reliability when used in SETs or OTLs. It is known for strong variation of the parameters during the first hundreds hours. I have owned Graaf OTLs that used them. Graaf was considered very unreliable just because of the instability along time of the 6C33 in their circuit. The only way of feeding them was selecting them measuring each triode , burning in them in an home built jig for 100 hours and measuring again and repeating the previous procedure. Only tubes that were stable at in the two last measurements could be used. More than half of the tubes I got was not usable in my amplifiers.
The 6C33 was not made to be used in audio amplifiers - it was developed for pass element in military power supplies using a feedback loop that would make them insensitive to gain variations. When using them in audio, they should be properly burned-in and selected.
BTW, some (not all, surely) eBay re-sellers will sell us working tubes that are just tubes rejected by manufacturers. These tubes are normally very cheap ...
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Precisely my point
Caveat Emptor
As stated I would never buy from anyone except Vlad because of all of the testing he does. Simple tube resellers just do not provide that level of testing. For me to pay an extra $18 per tube is trivial in the great scheme of things
Vlad only uses the best of tubes. If this is capitalism then God Bless America as what he brings to my system is security and peace of mind
As a Lamm dealer I feel uncomfortable getting into this but what you say isn't true Jeff, tubes fail and all tube electronics need replacement service, it's a necessity not a business model and the quality of that service is what the customer relies on for long term satisfaction. Compared to any other equivalent exotic manufacturer you spend significantly less on Lamm replacement tubes because of both quality and quantity of tubes in his gear. Also they're not only matched sets of tubes they're also matched to the operating parameters of the electronics. Of course everything Micro mentioned on reliability of unknown sources applies to everything. To be clear as a Lamm dealer we never made a dime on replacement tubes it's a service to the customer. Up to you where to purchase your parts but it's not the same as buying from the manufacturer.
david
Here is my home system. A Yamaha Disklavier Enspire self-play piano. I could stream music from Yamaha and the piano would play for me. No horn-SET, SS-cones gonna beat my system here
View attachment 46977
Kind regards,
Tang
It's also your first mono system!
david
Talking about tubes. Imo buying a "very expensive" tube gear should not involve further tube rolling unless it is for a maintenance purpose. The designer should have extensively tested his gear with different tubes to find "the" sound for that equipment. When I hear people say this crazy expensive amp or that very expensive phono has to roll tube to sound excellent I wonder why the crazy money one paid for that equipment didnt already cover for the tubes. I am talking for example a super expensive gear like Kondo Kagura.
Tang
Tang
Talking about tubes. Imo buying a "very expensive" tube gear should not involve further tube rolling unless it is for a maintenance purpose. The designer should have extensively tested his gear with different tubes to find "the" sound for that equipment. When I hear people say this crazy expensive amp or that very expensive phono has to roll tube to sound excellent I wonder why the crazy money one paid for that equipment didnt already cover for the tubes. I am talking for example a super expensive gear like Kondo Kagura.
Tang
It a continuation of the obsession of the hobby.
Like multiple arms and cartridges and tables and pressings.
Modern tubes are really the only option for most designs. You can not get any NOS tube in quantity for production purposes.
If NOS is used by the manufacturer then they likely hoarded a stash of their own. For the most part, most would agree that for small signal tubes NOS, of the right variety, are more engaging and longer lasting than current mfr.
For power tubes, probably still true but its virtually impossible to find matched sets for current draw of any type today without buying singles and going through an expensive exercise that can prove fatal for the tubes.
I just went through the exercise for my SET 211 , I can't listen to any of the Chinese variants. Finding American types is tough .
And when you participate in vintage you need to try more options....
Just one box of the off brands that I was sorting through. Like anything in this hobby for me you tend to accumulate.
It a continuation of the obsession of the hobby.
Like multiple arms and cartridges and tables and pressings.
Modern tubes are really the only option for most designs. You can not get any NOS tube in quantity for production purposes.
If NOS is used by the manufacturer then they likely hoarded a stash of their own. For the most part, most would agree that for small signal tubes NOS, of the right variety, are more engaging and longer lasting than current mfr.
For power tubes, probably still true but its virtually impossible to find matched sets for current draw of any type today without buying singles and going through an expensive exercise that can prove fatal for the tubes.
I just went through the exercise for my SET 211 , I can't listen to any of the Chinese variants. Finding American types is tough .
And when you participate in vintage you need to try more options....
View attachment 46996View attachment 46997
Exactly. Manufacturers use tubes that are available; a few may have a stash of tubes no longer available but those may eventually run out. Small signal tubes from th '40s through mid '70s can offer superior sonics and potentially longer life. Sometimes the sonic differences can be significantt , as a man with an Aesthetix Io can tell you.
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