Zero Distortion: Tango Time

May 30, 2010
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Multiple TTs are great just because there are so many to love. But on a practical note, the ability to support multiple arms with different cartridges is a huge benefit. Rather that choosing on a track basis, I've found each record has a recorded personality that often favors one arm/cart combo over another.(...)
Sure - and this happens with DACs, amplifiers and even speakers ...

I have CDs that I clearly prefer with the DCS Vivaldi - for example, most Aliavox Jordi Savall recordings, and others I prefer with the Metronome Calypso / C2A, such as the Gershwin by Grofe or some Joseph Pons de Falla music from Harmonia Mundi.

The same for Lamm ML3 or VTL 750s - there is no best for all recordings. It is our musical and equipment preferences that dictate what we consider the "best".
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Sure - and this happens with DACs, amplifiers and even speakers ...

I have CDs that I clearly prefer with the DCS Vivaldi - for example, most Aliavox Jordi Savall recordings, and others I prefer with the Metronome Calypso / C2A, such as the Gershwin by Grofe or some Joseph Pons de Falla music from Harmonia Mundi.

The same for Lamm ML3 or VTL 750s - there is no best for all recordings. It is our musical and equipment preferences that dictate what we consider the "best".
i find with sources the one i prefer will be better to my ears on a high percentage of music, since it gets out of the way of the musical essence the best and allows the most information through and least sameness. whereas with amplifiers it's different as the variables of speaker/room hookup on amplifiers means there are many more variables to consider that can make some amp/speaker/room combo's not ready for all music.......it's more than just presentation, detail and taste.

OTOH messing with multiple tt's, arms and cartridges is a whole hobby unto itself (like tube rolling) and we do not need any good reason to do it. i've done it before and might do it again. if it's fun and satisfying, exploring the best musical equations of gear and pressings can light up our souls.
 
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Tango

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Sure - and this happens with DACs, amplifiers and even speakers ...

I have CDs that I clearly prefer with the DCS Vivaldi - for example, most Aliavox Jordi Savall recordings, and others I prefer with the Metronome Calypso / C2A, such as the Gershwin by Grofe or some Joseph Pons de Falla music from Harmonia Mundi.

The same for Lamm ML3 or VTL 750s - there is no best for all recordings. It is our musical and equipment preferences that dictate what we consider the "best".
Of course that could happen. But if you could get consistency level to 8 or 9 out of 10 leaving 1 or 2 for "just by chance," you can pretty much make your summary from finding with a small little remark "could be different in some gear because I can't possibly try it all." For me when I try things, for example a record, I tried across different carts, arms, tts that I have available. And when possible I asked people for their datapoint to cross-check too. I find one aspect of sound from any record that is inarguable from any systems though, that is clarity. If a record is veiled it is going to be veiled no matter what system it is played with. If I hear veiled in my system and play with your system you say it is not veiled, then it is your system that is as veiled as the record and you never heard a better clarity before. Clarity is something easier to agree upon, does not require golden ears and not subjective to preferences. My wife is great at identifying which sounds more clear or which is more veiled.

Btw when I said "You" I did not mean Micro. Just "you" as people in general.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

Tango

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I am trying to post something that is accessible to all. Last week I received more than a dozen of piano records, 7 from the General. I use very expensive piano records from the General and tapes from Ed Pong as my references of good piano. I will keep posting my good findings so that friends here don't have to waste money like me chasing after good ones.

This week I proudly present (..hahaha:D) a $26 Liszt Rhapsodies by Cziffra. I don't remember how I came across this pianist and this record. I bought it from ebay Mint. The pressing is a German EMI 1975.

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I tested the record with 4 different carts on AS2000. The tone of piano and presentation varied from one cart to another but all gave a very engaging natural lively sound. This record has excellent clarity comparable to those expensive ones I have. No warmth no veil.

Tang

 
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Folsom

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That reminds me, I added that catalog number that my last youtube was from, I forgot to do that. ASD 2550, it's the only Beethoven anyone would ever need/want :p Any pressing is worth having the piece. It's the only one where an orchestra and piano work so well together that I like it a lot.

I'll have to grab a copy of that Liszt, Tang. I think I can see what you mean about piano sound with your stereo a little, as I got that one the general recommended you posted a few pages back from Marta, and the difference in sound is pretty substantial.
 

Tango

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That reminds me, I added that catalog number that my last youtube was from, I forgot to do that. ASD 2550, it's the only Beethoven anyone would ever need/want :p Any pressing is worth having the piece. It's the only one where an orchestra and piano work so well together that I like it a lot.

I'll have to grab a copy of that Liszt, Tang. I think I can see what you mean about piano sound with your stereo a little, as I got that one the general recommended you posted a few pages back from Marta, and the difference in sound is pretty substantial.
That Marta album is very entertaining. The recording venue seems to play role a lot in that recording. I like the album a lot...it is like watching different movie to me. Each recording has its own presentation.

You will not regret this Liszt Folsom. Thanks for posting yours too.

Tang :)
 
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tima

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I forgot to do that. ASD 2550, it's the only Beethoven anyone would ever need/want :p Any pressing is worth having the piece. It's the only one where an orchestra and piano work so well together that I like it a lot.
This is Barrenboim playing B's 4th Piano Concerto. When you say any pressing is worth having do you refer to ASD 2550, or any artist?

I don't know if you meant your comment about the orchestra and piano working well together as a comment about the sonics of this performance or about the music itself. Interestingly it is here in the 4th PC that B creates a new approach for the role of the piano and the orchestra in a concerto.

In the G-Major Beethoven broke with tradition by having the piano begin the concerto. Quite unusual. The opening bars are a tiny hymn with a subtle genius that places the soloist on equal footing with the authority of the collective. The orchestra responds and a dialectical tension is created that is heard through most of the piece. Not unusual in concertos and normally 'managed' by the conductor. The piece requires a strong soloist, a 'hero'. Here, the piano has little effect in its efforts at having a dialog with the orchestra, ultimately reverting to a cadenza so beautiful that it resolves the tension and tames the gruff orchestra.
 

the sound of Tao

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In the G-Major Beethoven broke with tradition by having the piano begin the concerto. Quite unusual. The opening bars are a tiny hymn with a subtle genius that places the soloist on equal footing with the authority of the collective. The orchestra responds and a dialectical tension is created that is heard through most of the piece. Not unusual in concertos and normally 'managed' by the conductor. The piece requires a strong soloist, a 'hero'. Here, the piano has little effect in its efforts at having a dialog with the orchestra, ultimately reverting to a cadenza so beautiful that it resolves the tension and tames the gruff orchestra.
Thanks Tim, lovely explanation of the approach with the 4th. It’s great to get this kind of perspective and background on the musical structure.
 
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Tango

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In the G-Major Beethoven broke with tradition by having the piano begin the concerto. Quite unusual. The opening bars are a tiny hymn with a subtle genius that places the soloist on equal footing with the authority of the collective. The orchestra responds and a dialectical tension is created that is heard through most of the piece. Not unusual in concertos and normally 'managed' by the conductor. The piece requires a strong soloist, a 'hero'. Here, the piano has little effect in its efforts at having a dialog with the orchestra, ultimately reverting to a cadenza so beautiful that it resolves the tension and tames the gruff orchestra.
Thank you Tima. Very educative for me. I actually thought all Beethoven piano starts with orchestra. Rachmaninoff starts with piano.

Tang
 
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Folsom

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This is Barrenboim playing B's 4th Piano Concerto. When you say any pressing is worth having do you refer to ASD 2550, or any artist?

I don't know if you meant your comment about the orchestra and piano working well together as a comment about the sonics of this performance or about the music itself. Interestingly it is here in the 4th PC that B creates a new approach for the role of the piano and the orchestra in a concerto.

In the G-Major Beethoven broke with tradition by having the piano begin the concerto. Quite unusual. The opening bars are a tiny hymn with a subtle genius that places the soloist on equal footing with the authority of the collective. The orchestra responds and a dialectical tension is created that is heard through most of the piece. Not unusual in concertos and normally 'managed' by the conductor. The piece requires a strong soloist, a 'hero'. Here, the piano has little effect in its efforts at having a dialog with the orchestra, ultimately reverting to a cadenza so beautiful that it resolves the tension and tames the gruff orchestra.
Any pressing of that performance, with that piano player.

The french one has less vinyl noise, but isn't as dynamic. They're different, but I love it on any of them.
 

tima

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Any pressing of that performance, with that piano player.

The french one has less vinyl noise, but isn't as dynamic. They're different, but I love it on any of them.
So you like Barenboim. I have not heard his 4th other than the audio snippet you posted. I ordered an EMI Electrola issue 1C 063-01 981. Do you have other performances of this work?
 

Folsom

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That’s my only one with Barenboim (I think). I have several on my wantlist. He conducts, too. I don’t know how he does with other pieces, if he’s a one hit wonder or not.
 

the sound of Tao

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That’s my only one with Barenboim (I think). I have several on my wantlist. He conducts, too. I don’t know how he does with other pieces, if he’s a one hit wonder or not.
More lol
 

Tango

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That’s my only one with Barenboim (I think). I have several on my wantlist. He conducts, too. I don’t know how he does with other pieces, if he’s a one hit wonder or not.
He is great with DuPre. Recording not so good though.
 
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Tango

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EE26664F-B9E9-4177-AE49-818C10A1AB9D.jpeg

Here is a really good piano recording. I can't even say her name right. I will call it the Omen album because she reminds me of Damien 666. I snatched one from ebay a minute after the General posted the picture. A bit more costly at $109. Russian label. First impression is this recording sounds the same excellent way as the Heifetz Kreutzer. That good. I have a near mint but have to admit the click n pops took away some enjoyment.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
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Tango

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That facial expression is so Russian that it's nearly satire of Russians.

Tang do you have sonic cleaner?
I use KL. Did not help much. My friend is getting me a cheaper cleaner from Munich. I will try and let you know.

D683C3EA-D13F-4730-8DE6-08397FB90701.jpeg

Zoom the pop up stand in the back.

Tang
 

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