Zero Distortion: Tango Time

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
3,019
1,854
113
Bangkok

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
925
462
63
Do you vacuum after sonic clean? That's important.
Vacuuming is relevant only if your RCM is horizontal - in fact that is what horizontal RCMs are: vacuum cleaners. Ultrasonic RCMs are vertical. You don't need two machines. Probably not a topic for this thread, but, cats.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
3,815
340
83
Eastern WA
I’m sorry that just isn’t true. A friend of mine was very early adopter for sonic cleaning and found discs are much cleaner, much less noise if you vacuum them with some distilled water after sonic clean.

The sonic clean brakes up debris, but they often float about and stay on the disc, even if you have a pump filter for the water solution.

There are many different vacuum RCM’s that can be used. I have a manual one Squeaky Clean. It’s nice in that if I slowly rotate it after a quicker rotation then it’ll become dry from air flow. I use a solution to help get dirt/debris.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
925
462
63
I’m sorry that just isn’t true. A friend of mine was very early adopter for sonic cleaning and found discs are much cleaner, much less noise if you vacuum them with some distilled water after sonic clean.

The sonic clean brakes up debris, but they often float about and stay on the disc, even if you have a pump filter for the water solution.

There are many different vacuum RCM’s that can be used. I have a manual one Squeaky Clean. It’s nice in that if I slowly rotate it after a quicker rotation then it’ll become dry from air flow. I use a solution to help get dirt/debris.
I mean no disrespect, you're working with too little information.

You (or your friend) are talking about a horizontal RCM - not sure what is meant by "sonic cleaning." "Sonic cleaning" means cleaning with sound; I believe you mean simply "cleaning.". There are no horizontal ultrasonic RCMS on the market and none that are custom; to my knowledge in principle it is not possible to make one.

Horizontal systems such as Loricraft or Monks coupled with enzyme based cleaners can do a very good job. It's one side at a time, a lengthy process and very messy. Their vacuums do work. Some people who have them continue to use them. (I still have my Loricraft, though it's boxed.) However new RCM purchases are largely surplanted by USC machines. Ultrasonic cleaning is at least as good (and better based on my experience) without the mess and time. Some 'audiophile' desktop ultrasonics are okay, one record at a time - they are about convenience - but it is difficult to keep the machine itself clean.

I'll refer you to one of my recent articles, here.

If you're commited to a horizontal RCM check my article from 2011, here. Much more there than just about a product.

Might I suggest any follow go here so we not take up further pixels in Bongo's thread.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
3,815
340
83
Eastern WA
I mean no disrespect, you're working with too little information.

You (or your friend) are talking about a horizontal RCM - not sure what is meant by "sonic cleaning." "Sonic cleaning" means cleaning with sound; I believe you mean simply "cleaning.". There are no horizontal ultrasonic RCMS on the market and none that are custom; to my knowledge in principle it is not possible to make one.

Horizontal systems such as Loricraft or Monks coupled with enzyme based cleaners can do a very good job. It's one side at a time, a lengthy process and very messy. Their vacuums do work. Some people who have them continue to use them. (I still have my Loricraft, though it's boxed.) However new RCM purchases are largely surplanted by USC machines. Ultrasonic cleaning is at least as good (and better based on my experience) without the mess and time. Some 'audiophile' desktop ultrasonics are okay, one record at a time - they are about convenience - but it is difficult to keep the machine itself clean.

I'll refer you to one of my recent articles, here.

If you're commited to a horizontal RCM check my article from 2011, here. Much more there than just about a product.

Might I suggest any follow go here so we not take up further pixels in Bongo's thread.
No. What is this nonsense???

When I say sonic cleaning, I MEAN SONIC CLEANING, WITH A SONIC CLEANER THAT PRODUCES HIGH FREQUENCY WAVES IN LIQUID. THEY ALL DO THIS.

And you’re wrong, I’ve seen a horizontal sonic cleaner, made by some audio company, on a blog somewhere.

Anyways when you are done SONIC CLEANING, for best results a vacuum is a must.

But unlike what Rocket thinks, you don’t put a dry record on a vacuum RCM and dry vac. You use a wet solution. In mine I use a few different things for both cleaners. If you have a sonic cleaner that allows more than water, you’ll also get cleaner albums. Water alone isn’t as good of an anti-static measure as a percent of hepistat cleaner that also neutralizes biologicals.

I put vinyl that is clean, but not from me cleaning it, through my RCM vacuum just to kill the static. I have more static than most in my room. If vacuuming increased static I would have blown my brains out by now. But it reduces it so I can go on without going crazy.

IF YOU WANT THE CLEANEST RECORDS POSSIBLE, A VACUUM AFTER SONIC CLEANING IS A MUST. (And obviously you use a solution that helps extra the remaining debris, dry vacuuming wouldn’t do much)

My friend and others have been doing this well before any commercial sonic cleaners were available. They have literally been at the forefront the entire time, and get superior results since their setups aren’t constrained to purely water, and they can remove the remaining stuff that floats in water (even with a surfactant in it).
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
11,906
1,600
113
London
Guys there is an ultra sonic cleaner discussion thread this can be continued on
 
Likes: KeithR
Jan 29, 2012
1,318
404
83
Vacuum for drying == Static == Dust collecting LP's. It is really as simple as that. Once I clean with my KL Audio, I don't heave to clean the record again for years. Any dust blows right off the record...no static cling.
The KL is the single best investment I've made as a record collector. I seldom use my stylus cleaner and gave away my static gun.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
3,019
1,854
113
Bangkok
Today I show a very special vinyl. The General sent me this Echos De Rompon, R. Schumann. First time I listened to it, it shocked me caught me off guard. I didn't know there was a guy singing in this record. I thought it was pure piano. I actually twitched..hahaha. The sound is so damn realistic. Piano is on the left and this guy sings from the right right behind the speaker. Probably cannot locate that on youtube. I bought 5 different Echos. Very expensive. They are among my references of piano from vinyl. Will post more on them later.

Btw Mr. Kedar you can not use the £550 ERC Magda Tagliaferro as piano sound reference. :p And the General won't let you hear this one at his. :D:D:D

Tang

1A188114-5AF5-4CBE-A3E1-4A5418FB58E4.jpeg

 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
11,906
1,600
113
London
The General thinks the Magda is one of the best piano recordings, as is this one. I haven't heard the Echos at his, heard the Magda twice among many other piano recordings. And yes, he has 10000 more that I haven't heard.

I use more than one piano reference. There are different types of sound.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
925
462
63
Today I show a very special vinyl. The General sent me this Echos De Rompon, R. Schumann. First time I listened to it, it shocked me caught me off guard. I didn't know there was a guy singing in this record. I thought it was pure piano. I actually twitched..hahaha. The sound is so damn realistic. Piano is on the left and this guy sings from the right right behind the speaker. Probably cannot locate that on youtube. I bought 5 different Echos. Very expensive. They are among my references of piano from vinyl. Will post more on them later.

Btw Mr. Kedar you can not use the £550 ERC Magda Tagliaferro as piano sound reference. :p And the General won't let you hear this one at his. :D:D:D

Tang

View attachment 51566

It is helpful if you post a record's catalog number. Thank you.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
11,906
1,600
113
London
It is helpful if you post a record's catalog number. Thank you.
Lol you won't find this one in good condition
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
11,906
1,600
113
London
Live piano sound, Schiff on Bosendorfer

 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
925
462
63
Lol you won't find this one in good condition
Sure, but I might be able to find enough information to know who's singing. It's helpful to post the catalog nbr. when you highlight a record.

edit:
vocal Henk van den Brink
piano: Jeanne Bovet
Tunicaphon AG - 30-773
Switzerland 1982

edit2:
And fwiw, there is more than one record by Ms Bovet with the title 'Echos De Rompon'
Bach / Tunicaphon AG - LP 25-192
Bach / Scarlotti Tunicaphon AG - LP 30-538
 
Last edited:
Jul 5, 2014
670
19
18
Salem, OR
Today I show a very special vinyl. The General sent me this Echos De Rompon, R. Schumann. First time I listened to it, it shocked me caught me off guard. I didn't know there was a guy singing in this record. I thought it was pure piano. I actually twitched..hahaha. The sound is so damn realistic. Piano is on the left and this guy sings from the right right behind the speaker. Probably cannot locate that on youtube. I bought 5 different Echos. Very expensive. They are among my references of piano from vinyl. Will post more on them later.

Btw Mr. Kedar you can not use the £550 ERC Magda Tagliaferro as piano sound reference. :p And the General won't let you hear this one at his. :D:D:D

Tang

View attachment 51566

Hi, Tango. A few others had suggested that I check out some of your in-room recordings and I must say some of your in-room recordings are rather impressive and you're to be commended on assembling a pretty musical playback system. Far more musical than many I've heard here and elsewhere.

But I'm curious about this Echo piece. You said above that this is "so damn realistic" and I'm curious why you say that? I've heard some of your other in-room recordings and I thought some of them were significantly more realistic than this piece.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
3,019
1,854
113
Bangkok
Sure, but I might be able to find enough information to know who's singing. It's helpful to post the catalog nbr. when you highlight a record.
Will do Tima. I am out picking up my kid for piano lesson now.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio convertors (DACS), turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing