Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[Tango]

what about the next here?

View attachment 54180

the acoustic treatment was not perfect
I will propose SMT wings diffusor panels

Some giant tampons too.

 

[ack]

On Mr.Fremer's Analog Planet, I saw a video of SAT/Opus1 playing Fanfare for the Common Man. It sounded excellent on his video. Apart from his incomparable high level of professional recording he has over me, his video took out the variables of room play and speakers vs my homemade shaky vid with amps, speakers, cables and room in play. Listeners will not get an approximation of how his system sound but mine does. Different objectives. So I bought this record of Eiji Oue Minesota Orchestra Reference Recordings. The sound from this record is so majestically grand. The depth, the width, the ambient and musical impact are just impressive. If you don't already have this you should get one.

View attachment 54112

This time I let you guys hear from the side and also get a feel of my room. You have to bear with my shaky hand. What is largely lacking from the video vs real is the depth of sound field. This record really plays depth in real. And Guess what. When I listen to this youtube from speakers of my iPad mini, it actually gives better sense of ambient of my room a lot better than listening from earphone. Don't know why.

I've had this on HDCD for decades, will order the LP. Within the limits of such videos, your video conveys a good portrayal of the music, especially the gong, and more or less, the scale that I am used to, though soundstage appears to be larger. The brass sound very unnatural and pronounced, ear piercing. The timpani appear to have good size and body.

 

[Folsom]

My preferences do no go towards spectacular music, so I do not have great experience with such type of RR recordings. But I am perfectly happy with the one I referred, as well as several others of chamber music. In adequate systems, what you call "distracting pinpoint imaging" becomes a realistic 3D with plenty of boom and space, with realistic dynamics.
If this what you call very audiophile, I take it as a compliment!

As always, IMHO, YMMV.

With Wilsons, sure. Horns not so much. The rear reflections are responsible for much of the 3D effect.

 

[NorthStar]

Hi Tang,
you do not need a sub,, if you desire to participate to a fantastic audio experience, please come next year to Mantova where we organize an yearly event named "Trame Sonore".
200 musicians plays chamber music in historical places of Mantova.

Here after the Teatro Bibiena declared by Mozart the best theater of the world.

View attachment 54179

That, I would also like to hear it from a home made music video on YouTube, just for the fun of living.

 

[NorthStar]

what about the next here?

View attachment 54180

the acoustic treatment was not perfect
I will propose SMT wings diffusor panels

That too, a music recording from one audiophile in the audience using his Samsung Galaxy S9 or LG V30 cell phone, just for the heck of sharing with others who couldn't be there in person live.

Or a true professional live music recording put on Blu-ray, in hires 5.1 surround sound.
The side surrounds only for the hall sound.

 

[Tango]

I've had this on HDCD for decades, will order the LP. Within the limits of such videos, your video conveys a good portrayal of the music, especially the gong, and more or less, the scale that I am used to, though soundstage appears to be larger. The brass sound very unnatural and pronounced, ear piercing. The timpani appear to have good size and body.

RogeD wrote " things that videos do well is tonal balance, amount of stress, clarity , and openness. Borderline is phantom image, sound direction, and focus.Lousy is punch, power, gestalt. Non existent soundstage, separation, multi dimensional imaging, projection. Much more....." I pretty much agree with him on this.

If you hear the brass in the video as ear piercing and unnatural, in real you will find even a degree more so. The video was taken off and on center 7.5 meter to 5.3 meter from speakers. If you sit more near field than me when you listen to your system you could get a more enveloping grand sound. Dimensionality and staging you heard in the video are least representative of real room. But overall the video gives an approximation macro feel of how it sounded in my room.

I appreciate when friends make comments on sound of my system from the video because I get to learn a little bit more how you guys hear things and your preference. At this level of brass I "might be able to assume" its an ear piercing level to Ack. I said might because I don't know what device he used when listened to it. We talk in the forum so much but most of us never sit and listen together on the same piece to get comment and learn what our friends consider preferred or un-preferred sound to them. Commenting on the video gives a glimpse of that because we are hearing the same youtube.

Tang

 

[NorthStar]

And the comments vary because no one is using the same music reproduction device; headphones, speakers, amplification, laptops, computers, tablets, etc.

I prefer to have them then to fly to Bangkok, it's more affordable.
And we discover more new music that way, thank you.

 

[ddk]

My preferences do no go towards spectacular music, so I do not have great experience with such type of RR recordings. But I am perfectly happy with the one I referred, as well as several others of chamber music. In adequate systems, what you call "distracting pinpoint imaging" becomes a realistic 3D with plenty of boom and space, with realistic dynamics.
If this what you call very audiophile, I take it as a compliment!

As always, IMHO, YMMV.

My point was that all RR albums sound very much the same and are formulaic. By all means enjoy the fanfare but realistic is debatable but plenty of boom and space is an accurate description!
david

 

[tima]

I appreciate when friends make comments on sound of my system from the video because I get to learn a little bit more how you guys hear things and your preference. At this level of brass I "might be able to assume" its an ear piercing level to Ack. I said might because I don't know what device he used when listened to it. We talk in the forum so much but most of us never sit and listen together on the same piece to get comment and learn what our friends consider preferred or un-preferred sound to them. Commenting on the video gives a glimpse of that because we are hearing the same youtube.

Please don't tune your system for a cell phone.

Even if brass comes across as ear-piercing, is it golden, brassy in tone without edge?

 

[tima]

My point was that all RR albums sound very much the same and are formulaic. By all means enjoy the fanfare but realistic is debatable but plenty of boom and space is an accurate description!
david

While some are better than others, I agree generally about their 'formulaic' sonics (always the diplomat, David) - especially Eiji Oue and the many Minnesota Orchestra recordings they've done. But do give the label (Tam Henderson) credit for recording stuff that's overlooked and usually well pressed records. Where else can I hear Malcom Arnold's "Padstow Lifeboat".

 

[Audiophile Bill]

While some are better than others, I agree generally about their 'formulaic' sonics (always the diplomat, David) - especially Eiji Oue and the many Minnesota Orchestra recordings they've done. But do give the label (Tam Henderson) credit for recording stuff that's overlooked and usually well pressed records. Where else can I hear Malcom Arnold's "Padstow Lifeboat".

Well preferably played by the Black Dyke

 

[microstrip]

My point was that all RR albums sound very much the same and are formulaic. By all means enjoy the fanfare but realistic is debatable but plenty of boom and space is an accurate description!
david

Surely RR albums have a sound signature and their quality is variable - they reflect the views of Keith Johnson on sound recording. But they do not seem to be formulaic in the poor sense of the word - "The RR Sound comes from his singular methods and equipment, almost all hand-built or extensively modified by him. His microphone techniques range from purist to complex, depending on the musical forces and the performing space involved. " (from the RR site).

I do not own the Fanfarre - I think that the LP was issued recently - do you also consider that the Berlioz: Symphonie fantastique sounds boomy?

Most labels have a sound characteristic - and surely our systems reflect in some way our musical preferences if we tune our systems using these preferred recordings.

BTW, one great thing of WBF is forcing us to search - just found a new album to download https://referencerecordings.com/recording/hermitage-piano-trio-rachmaninoff/ : who can resist after reading such great article? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magic-at-mechanics/

 

[bonzo75]

Somehow this fast and the furious interview made me think of audiophiles who describe sound as boom slam space and all 600 records sound the same

 

[bonzo75]

Tang, why don't you play a video of this LP that you have

https://www.discogs.com/Ruggiero-Ri...notti-Barber-Violin-Concertos/release/7181240

 

[Mike Lavigne]

All RR are like that, very audiophile. Listen to a few of them and they become very boring. Every piece goes loud then slow quiet and then loud again. Then there's that very distracting pinpoint imaging which is very unnatural, that's their signature sound.
david

the world according to David.

not every system/amp/room is created equal to serve large scale music. and the whole 'stereo' process many times can deliver musical focus surpassing the 'live' experience. often it well serves the musical experience and involvement.

OTOH when RR serves up digital file sourced vinyl pressings it does upset me (since the tapes are sitting there crying out to be used). mostly i prefer the 24/176 file sources to this new vinyl.....but consistently like the earlier analog sourced RR pressings.....and the Tape Project RR 1/4" 15ips tapes.

 

[ddk]

the world according to David.

not every system/amp/room is created equal to serve large scale music. and the whole 'stereo' process many times can deliver musical focus surpassing the 'live' experience. often it well serves the musical experience and involvement.

OTOH when RR serves up digital file sourced vinyl pressings it does upset me (since the tapes are sitting there crying out to be used). mostly i prefer the 24/176 file sources to this new vinyl.....but consistently like the earlier analog sourced RR pressings.....and the Tape Project RR 1/4" 15ips tapes.

It certainly is different from Lavigne's World !

david

 

[ack]

If you hear the brass in the video as ear piercing and unnatural, in real you will find even a degree more so. The video was taken off and on center 7.5 meter to 5.3 meter from speakers. If you sit more near field than me when you listen to your system you could get a more enveloping grand sound. Dimensionality and staging you heard in the video are least representative of real room. But overall the video gives an approximation macro feel of how it sounded in my room.

So, in the video, brass has this shrill to it, which makes it ear piercing and totally unnatural, nothinig to do with real life. I bet this is yet again why these videos portray only a fraction of the truth, and likely enhance distortions rather than convey the good aspects of the sound; but since you commented on the sound of it, I went ahead and said what I hear.

 

[Steve Williams]

and the whole 'stereo' process many times can deliver musical focus surpassing the 'live' experience.

I'm surprised you say that Mike as I personally have never been to the symphony and commented that my stereo gives a better than live experience.

It just isn't so. or is it just your system?

 

[ddk]

Surely RR albums have a sound signature and their quality is variable - they reflect the views of Keith Johnson on sound recording. But they do not seem to be formulaic in the poor sense of the word - "The RR Sound comes from his singular methods and equipment, almost all hand-built or extensively modified by him. His microphone techniques range from purist to complex, depending on the musical forces and the performing space involved. " (from the RR site).

And that's why I find them boring, play a few titles back to back and you'll see and hear it. Passages start pianissimo with an unnatural amount of air sucking you in to boom fortissimo and then back down again. It might be impressive to you but it's unnatural, I've never heard an orchestra like that and only one way.

Most labels have a sound characteristic - and surely our systems reflect in some way our musical preferences if we tune our systems using these preferred recordings.

BTW, one great thing of WBF is forcing us to search - just found a new album to download https://referencerecordings.com/recording/hermitage-piano-trio-rachmaninoff/ : who can resist after reading such great article? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magic-at-mechanics/

Most labels I listen to have more than one guy and his one set of equipment doing the work for them, they're also engaged with more than one conductor and orchestra. There's no formula or a singular taste pumping out repetitiveness, recordings and even quality is certainly varied with them and lot more interesting for me.

I've spent the last 20 years detuning detweaking systems and rooms ask anyone who's worked with me. Tuning and super tuning is Mike's domain as are digital downloads he can get into with you . [/QUOTE]

david

 

[gian60]

This time i am 100% agree with David
RR are not natural and unnatural dynamic I like only Histoire du soldat,this is the most natural,other i don't like

Were good 30/35 years ago when i bought because was impressive like all the old Telarc that i have near all,but not natural,

This are some of what i have