FWIW, I use Zippo, primarily to remove stickers from sleeves, but it works wonders on paint and other similar substances. It evaporates very quickly, however, so there is no ability to soak. Where does this paint even come from?!
tima's DIY RCM
- Thread starter tima
- Start date
I have ordered one of the brushes you suggest and will experiment. Also trying to source some Liquinox to try. Thanks, as always, for your insights
Try this site - Liquinox | Sigma-Aldrich (sigmaaldrich.com); verify delivery is GB; buy the 947 mL pack (1-qt). Sigma-Aldrich is a large chemical/lab supplier with what appears international distribution - @Stacore is buying Liquinox from them for delivery Poland. Delivery dates can be a few weeks out.I have ordered one of the brushes you suggest and will experiment. Also trying to source some Liquinox to try. Thanks, as always, for your insights
Neil
Neil, ethanol worked instantly. The paint gave up after a minute or two, thank you for the great advice!
I’ve also received the 0,2um filter and assembled the filtration rig around it. Test run ok The pump is a bit noisy but pumps a considerable amount of cleaner through the filter. The filter was the most problematic thing. Absolute rated filters seem unheard of in EU and the UK company you found charges a slab of gold for the shipping. I finally got this from China:
1PC 5" 0.2 micron filter wine filter flat port Water filter accessories | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1PC 5" 0.2 micron filter wine filter flat port Water filter accessories at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk
No idea if its nominal or absolute, the seller had little idea, costs and looks like the UK one though.
Cheers,
Jarek,Neil, ethanol worked instantly. The paint gave up after a minute or two, thank you for the great advice!
I’ve also received the 0,2um filter and assembled the filtration rig around it. Test run ok The pump is a bit noisy but pumps a considerable amount of cleaner through the filter. The filter was the most problematic thing. Absolute rated filters seem unheard of in EU and the UK company you found charges a slab of gold for the shipping. I finally got this from China:
1PC 5" 0.2 micron filter wine filter flat port Water filter accessories | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1PC 5" 0.2 micron filter wine filter flat port Water filter accessories at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.www.ebay.co.uk
No idea if its nominal or absolute, the seller had little idea, costs and looks like the UK one though.
Cheers,
Good to hear the 'paint' was so easily removed - I think you got lucky.
The new positive displacement pump will make more noise than a centrifugal pump; its inherent to the design.
I cannot really tell if the filter is absolute or nominal - there is no cut-sheet. If it is absolute, you should see that the tank is staying clear after cleaning more records than before.
Good Luck,
Neil
Did you consider ordering from the US? I don't know about shipping other than it is terrible everywhere, but you could get a name brand with specifications. I don't think I'd buy an unknown, but that's me.
Edit: https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p...doe-end-cap-0-2-micron?variant=13250255683627
Last edited:
Thanks. Had tried that, and similar, sites previously but always get stuck when they asks for UPS/FedEx shipping account, which I don't have as a residential customer. Anyway, sourced some via eBay and it's on its way...
Thank you Tima, shipping costs and times are usually prohibitive. Plus I do not really consider the filter as that critical - its sole role is to prolong longevity of the cleaner.
Is there a way that you could put together a comprehensive parts list of everything you have in your current rig?
Would like to replicate your build, please and thank you.
Yes, sure - since you said please and thank you.
I've done this before but it is scattered in a few different places across four years so I will feed it to you in sections. Primary resources for you are my three articles published at The Vinyl Press (TVP) - see opening post - and this thread. While this thread is not organized, there is a lot of information here and just about everything about my (and David's) system can be found here.
The other very valuable (to me anyway) resource is the lengthy dialog I had with Neil Antin from May thru August 2020 after the publication of the original version of his paper Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records (aka 'The Book'). Most (all?) of that dialog is preserved and found after the introduction to it at the link just given (scroll down).
I will tell you up front that to use the same components and construct what David and I currently have will be pricey compared to a single-slot off-the-shelf desktop machine. The way I see it is my records ('software') are the most valuable part of my audio enjoyment, so keeping them clean and well maintained is not only worth the cost but a key critical aspect of that enjoyment.
I will break my current system down into 4 parts:
1. Wash tank
2. Wash tank filter system
3. Rinse tank
4. Rinse tank filter system.
WASH TANK - The current wash tank USC is documented in my third article about building my DIY RCM, tima's DIY RCM - follow-up #2: Compelling Changes - Improved Results, published at Bill Hart's The Vinyl Press . You can see some pictures there. For brevity I will not include pictures in this post.
Wash Tank USC: Elmasonic P 120H You will want to search the Web thoroughly for the best price.
Elma has increasingly changed the way they present information about their products on their Web site, becoming less comprehensive and informative. This chart for the P-Series may help:
Rotisserie: Kuzma RD Ultrasonic Record Cleaning kit. Likely this should be ordered from a Kuzma dealer. It is pricey. Imo it is the best designed and best made of its type on the market today. The RD is v. important in my system because it allows you to lift a spindle-full of records out of the wash tank and easily move it to the rinse tank. Another top-grade piece of gear from Franc Kuzma.
WASH TANK FILTER SYSTEM
Filter Canister Pentek 150574:
3/4" #10 3G Blue Filter Housing with Bracket and Meter Mount ~$33
Gauge Pentek 143549:
Differential Pressure Gauge for 3G Meter Mount Housings ~$53
Green (clean) 0-6 psid; Yellow (change) 6-9 psid; Red (dirty) 9-12 psid
Tubing: 3/8" ID x 50 Ft High Pressure Braided Clear PVC Vinyl Tubing Flexible Vinyl Tube, Heavy Duty Reinforced Vinyl Hose Tubing, BPA Free and Non Toxic
Pump Shurflo 8020-513-236 Pump 15vAC Power Cord 60PSI Switch 1.6 GPM
~ $140 - $190 (https://www.toboaenergy.com $142.57)
You will want to mount this pump on a board, not in a box. Neil has another pump suggestion, but for the moment I can't find my docs on that.
Filter FlowMax HP (Watts) FPP-0.2-975-DOE 2.5” x 9.75” DOE End Cap 0.2 micron absolute
~$50 (https://www.freshwatersystems.com)
Hose Barb for filter canister: x2 Hose Barb ¾” NPT x 3/8” Barb
Hose Barb for Pump: x2 Hose Barb 3/8” NPT x 3/8” Barb (nylon or plastic not metal)
On/Off Switch for Pump: BindMaster 3-Prong Grounded On/Off Switch (for pump)
~ $9
RINSE TANK
Rinse Tank USC: Elmasonic S 120H. best price I found was here
Rotisserie: Kuzma RD Ultrasonic Record Cleaning kit
RINSE TANK FILTER SYSTEM
Filter Canister Pentek 158116 ¼” #10 Slim Line
Filter Flow Max FM-0.35-975 2-1/2” x 9-3/4” Pleated Filter, 0.35 micron nominal
Tubing: Clear PVC vinyl food grade 3/8" ID intake from tank to pump, 1/4" output to filter cannister and back to tank.
Pump Little Giant 1-AA-OM
This pump is no longer made by Little Giant but is available on the Web from vendors: one two. It was original designed as a hot water pump for drink dispensers.
Pump Wiring You will need to attach wire and plug. I used this. Westinghouse Lamp Cord w/ switch
Pump Box Cantex 513371OU Junction Box
Hose barbs intake to pump 1/4"MNPT to 3/8", Nylon; discharge from pump 1/4" FNPT to 1/4" barb, brass; intake and discharge for filter cannister 1/4" MNPT to 1/4" barb, brass. Don't forget the plumbers tape.
Check a) post #142 in this thread; b) my first article on TVP for more info and pictures on building the pump; c) post #7 in this thread (which I forgot about before writing this far! )
The one thing we have not discussed in any detail is locating all this stuff for ease of use and efficient operation. David and I each have our tanks, filters, pumps, etc for both wash and rinse located side by side. David designed and we both built waterproof trays large enough to hold everything. I encourage anyone to consider this approach. I keep my drying station (two RD spindle holders) in my audio room, which is separate from the clearning station. Sometime I will post a few pictures of tray construction.
I probably left something out but this will get you started. Let us know on this thread if you have questions. But I will ask you now that you've seen the parts list and maybe looked up some stuff, do you still want to build the complete system?
Edit: typos.
Last edited:
Tim,
If I may, here is a better alternative for that pump - and the combined cost is just a bit less:
- SLV10-AA48 Automatic Demand 12V Pump with On/Off Switch & 2 Pin Connec – Sprayer Depot. It has an ON/OFF switch and it has 3/8" barb connections. Additionally it has a standard SAE plug which makes hook-up to a 12VDC power source very easy (see below). Note: The ON/OFF switch is important since you want the 12VDC power supply energized before starting this pump otherwise the power supply may go into over-current protection from the combined current in-rush of the power-supply+pump-motor.
-Here is a good 12VDC power supply - Amazon.com: MEAN WELL GST60A12-P1J 12V 5 Amp 60W Regulated Switching Table Top Power : Everything Else.
-Here is the SAE Plug to DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm Male 14AWG 2ft/60cm Adapters Cables with Sae Polarity Reverse Adapter - Amazon.com: SAE Connectors - iGreely SAE Plug to DC 5.5mm x 2.1mm Male 14AWG 2ft/60cm Adapters Cables with Sae Polarity Reverse Adapter for Automotive RV Solar Panel : Automotive
Neil
Neil,
I would find using that pump's on/off switch difficult since my pumps are located behind my tanks and physically getting to them is difficult. I use the pump Tim uses and have an on/off switch located at the outlet for easy switching.
I use these switches https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F55MTK8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
David,
The switch on the pump may be optional - the power supply I selected 60W should have enough power to start the power-supply/pump together. Otherwise, its easy to plug-in an in-line switch - Amazon.com : Yak-Power YP-ILS16 Waterproof Inline 12-Volt Power Switch : Sports & Outdoors.
Neil
Sure, your suggestions are always welcome, Neil. It was a bit more than four years ago when I bought the Little Giant based on a thread I read on a DIY audio forum. I knew a lot less then and I've never really been a DIY person, but I was tickled that it worked well based on before and after comparisons of filters. And it continues working today. A couple years back I bought a second to have as a spare.
It's good to have an in-production offering spec'd to the need. Thanks again Neil. I believe the DIY approach to record cleaning has gathered some interest thanks to your participation.
Short answer YES!Yes, sure - since you said please and thank you.
I've done this before but it is scattered in a few different places across four years so I will feed it to you in sections. Primary resources for you are my three articles published at The Vinyl Press (TVP) - see opening post - and this thread. While this thread is not organized, there is a lot of information here and just about everything about my (and David's) system can be found here.
The other very valuable (to me anyway) resource is the lengthy dialog I had with Neil Antin from May thru August 2020 after the publication of the original version of his paper Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records (aka 'The Book'). Most (all?) of that dialog is preserved and found after the introduction to it at the link just given (scroll down).
I will tell you up front that to use the same components and construct what David and I currently have will be pricey compared to a single-slot off-the-shelf desktop machine. The way I see it is my records ('software') are the most valuable part of my audio enjoyment, so keeping them clean and well maintained is not only worth the cost but a key critical aspect of that enjoyment.
I will break my current system down into 4 parts:
1. Wash tank
2. Wash tank filter system
3. Rinse tank
4. Rinse tank filter system.
WASH TANK - The current wash tank USC is documented in my third article about building my DIY RCM, tima's DIY RCM - follow-up #2: Compelling Changes - Improved Results, published at Bill Hart's The Vinyl Press . You can see some pictures there. For brevity I will not include pictures in this post.
Wash Tank USC: Elmasonic P 120H You will want to search the Web thoroughly for the best price.
Elma has increasingly changed the way they present information about their products on their Web site, becoming less comprehensive and informative. This chart for the P-Series may help:
View attachment 82272
Rotisserie: Kuzma RD Ultrasonic Record Cleaning kit. Likely this should be ordered from a Kuzma dealer. It is pricey. Imo it is the best designed and best made of its type on the market today. The RD is v. important in my system because it allows you to lift a spindle-full of records out of the wash tank and easily move it to the rinse tank. Another top-grade piece of gear from Franc Kuzma.
WASH TANK FILTER SYSTEM
Filter Canister Pentek 150574:
3/4" #10 3G Blue Filter Housing with Bracket and Meter Mount ~$33
Gauge Pentek 143549:
Differential Pressure Gauge for 3G Meter Mount Housings ~$53
Green (clean) 0-6 psid; Yellow (change) 6-9 psid; Red (dirty) 9-12 psid
Tubing: 3/8" ID x 50 Ft High Pressure Braided Clear PVC Vinyl Tubing Flexible Vinyl Tube, Heavy Duty Reinforced Vinyl Hose Tubing, BPA Free and Non Toxic
Pump Shurflo 8020-513-236 Pump 15vAC Power Cord 60PSI Switch 1.6 GPM
~ $140 - $190 (https://www.toboaenergy.com $142.57)
You will want to mount this pump on a board, not in a box. Neil has another pump suggestion, but for the moment I can't find my docs on that.
Filter FlowMax HP (Watts) FPP-0.2-975-DOE 2.5” x 9.75” DOE End Cap 0.2 micron absolute
~$50 (https://www.freshwatersystems.com)
Hose Barb for filter canister: x2 Hose Barb ¾” NPT x 3/8” Barb
Hose Barb for Pump: x2 Hose Barb 3/8” NPT x 3/8” Barb (nylon or plastic not metal)
On/Off Switch for Pump: BindMaster 3-Prong Grounded On/Off Switch (for pump)
~ $9
RINSE TANK
Rinse Tank USC: Elmasonic S 120H. best price I found was here
Rotisserie: Kuzma RD Ultrasonic Record Cleaning kit
RINSE TANK FILTER SYSTEM
Filter Canister Pentek 158116 ¼” #10 Slim Line
Filter Flow Max FM-0.35-975 2-1/2” x 9-3/4” Pleated Filter, 0.35 micron nominal
Tubing: Clear PVC vinyl food grade 3/8" ID intake from tank to pump, 1/4" output to filter cannister and back to tank.
Pump Little Giant 1-AA-OM
This pump is no longer made by Little Giant but is available on the Web from vendors: one two. It was original designed as a hot water pump for drink dispensers.
Pump Wiring You will need to attach wire and plug. I used this. Westinghouse Lamp Cord w/ switch
Pump Box Cantex 513371OU Junction Box
Hose barbs intake to pump 1/4"MNPT to 3/8", Nylon; discharge from pump 1/4" FNPT to 1/4" barb, brass; intake and discharge for filter cannister 1/4" MNPT to 1/4" barb, brass. Don't forget the plumbers tape.
Check a) post #142 in this thread; b) my first article on TVP for more info and pictures on building the pump; c) post #7 in this thread (which I forgot about before writing this far! )
The one thing we have not discussed in any detail is locating all this stuff for ease of use and efficient operation. David and I each have our tanks, filters, pumps, etc for both wash and rinse located side by side. David designed and we both built waterproof trays large enough to hold everything. I encourage anyone to consider this approach. I keep my drying station (two RD spindle holders) in my audio room, which is separate from the clearning station. Sometime I will post a few pictures of tray construction.
I probably left something out but this will get you started. Let us know on this thread if you have questions. But I will ask you now that you've seen the parts list and maybe looked up some stuff, do you still want to build the complete system?
Edit: typos.
I appreciate the consolidation very much. I have been mulling this over for a couple years now with the purchase of our new home have the space for a cleaning station.
Would love to see your drying station.
Thank you again, much appreciated.
I'm past some 80-100 LP's using my new 0.2um filter from Ebay and I'm happy so far - the cleaner is still quite clear (earlier it would go turbid after some 30 LP's) and the filter starts to get the yellowish coloration in the lower 20-25% of its height. Whatever the "0.2um" rating is, it works better than my nominal 0.5um.
Neil, I have a question re topping up the cleaner. Does Tergitol S7 evaporate in 40C? When I top up the cleaner to compensate for the evaporated volume, do I mix just DIW+IPA (2.5%) or do I add also S7?
Thank you,
Neil, I have a question re topping up the cleaner. Does Tergitol S7 evaporate in 40C? When I top up the cleaner to compensate for the evaporated volume, do I mix just DIW+IPA (2.5%) or do I add also S7?
Thank you,
Jarek,
The S-7 will not evaporate with the water. However, over time depending on how many records you are cleaning and how dirty they are, the S-7 will be depleted. Some of what you see on the filter is an emulsion of soil+S-7. There is no easy/cheap way to measure the S-7 concentration so keep an eye on how the records 'wet'. If you notice that the solution is no longer wetting the record, its time to add S-7. Adding equal to 0.004% (40 ppm) should do it noting that I would be surprised if you are able to clean 160-200 records before needing to refresh the tank.
Note for a tank such as your 6L, it often easier to prepare a 3% S-7 stock solution (60 ml/L) and then proportion from that. In the book, Section VIII.8.7 shows a formula to when doing concentration-dilution. So, to add 3% S-7 to a 6L tank to yield 0.004%; (0.00004)(6000 mL)/(0.03) = 8-mL.
Neil
I now have Liquinox here and look forward to trying it out. I will use it on my vacuum RCM which can dose out the fluid and also does agitation as the record rotates. I will also do some manual scrubbing too and test results.
However, because the RCM has a reservoir from which it doses the fluid, I can only easily use one type of fluid at a time. Neil - do I infer correctly that you feel Liquinox is the best pre-cleaner to use given a choice between it and say an Enzyme cleaner? I note you previous analogy about enzymes being a lock and key situation, and therefore of potentially limited applicability whereas Liquinox is more of an all-rounder which therefore gives on average better results?
Anybody know of any vacuum RCMs out there which support multiple reservoirs so that different fluids can be used?!
However, because the RCM has a reservoir from which it doses the fluid, I can only easily use one type of fluid at a time. Neil - do I infer correctly that you feel Liquinox is the best pre-cleaner to use given a choice between it and say an Enzyme cleaner? I note you previous analogy about enzymes being a lock and key situation, and therefore of potentially limited applicability whereas Liquinox is more of an all-rounder which therefore gives on average better results?
Anybody know of any vacuum RCMs out there which support multiple reservoirs so that different fluids can be used?!
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