Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[kswanson27]

...1m untreated vs 5m treated users report treated wins. I actually use a .5m untreated cable myself, but I recognize my QSA brethren really like the treated cable, and all reports have been positive.

Anyone thought of sending one of these to Emile for testing?

 

[marty]

Perhaps not the right metaphor, but using QSA products with Taiko products seems like using Chinese herbal medicine with real antibiotics to treat an infection. Maybe the Chinese herbs have a benefit but I'd like the Taiko doctor to weight in before I would consider any of their products on the Extreme+switch+router+DCD. Taiko has gone to great lengths to voice their sound very carefully and I'm not sure I'm ready to use 3rd party anything until I get some sense from Taiko as to its merits. (Perhaps the 5m cable requirement is to leave room for a noose if their cable doesn't work out?)

 

[John T]

I understand 5m treated is the "sweet" spot. But one would think a shorter thicker copper treated would also respond well. I have 1m and 2M stock and cannot tell any difference...

 

[Steve Williams]

Perhaps not the right metaphor, but using QSA products with Taiko products seems like using Chinese herbal medicine with real antibiotics to treat an infection. Maybe the Chinese herbs have a benefit but I'd like the Taiko doctor to weight in before I would consider any of their products on the Extreme+switch+router+DCD. Taiko has gone to great lengths to voice their sound very carefully and I'm not sure I'm ready to use 3rd party anything until I get some sense from Taiko as to its merits. (Perhaps the 5m cable requirement is to leave room for a noose if their cable doesn't work out?)

Totally agree.

There are several who have tried this DAC and compared to the generic DAC supplied with the switch, myself included

 

[oldmustang]

This was "the gang" at Munich in the Taiko/Lampi/Pilium/Alsyvox/Omega room. Besides making great sound we had a GREAT TIME during the show, setting up, meeting hundreds of visitors and even tearing down after the show.

View attachment 110991

It looks like you have the makings of a good rugby team, too!

Steve Z

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...I'm with you @John T , in that I tried 3m and .5m and could not tell the difference. I went with the .5m because it worked neat-and-tidy for my set-up...and at some theoretical level, it makes sense. And oh yeah, mostly because Emile recommended it!

 

[Steve Williams]

Maybe it is only me but where I see the potential for DC cables is in the upcoming BPS but again I would defer to Emile's suggestion

 

[MarkusBarkus]

Taiko has gone to great lengths to voice their sound very carefully and I'm not sure I'm ready to use 3rd party anything

...yes, but that said, they offer a set of filters in the distributor so we can "voice" to our liking. Also a setting in XDMS that changes the presentation. And they don't make a USB or power cable, so we're always using third-party products in our integrations with Taiko. It's all good!

 

[jelt2359]

FWIW this is what they told me:

Below 3m they use 30AWG wires. 5m they use AWG 24 wire. Above 7m they need to be active. 30awg is 4x less conductor than 24awg the impact of QSA treatment on a cable this small will be significantly less.

Personally, where there are clear technical benefits to one approach over another (LPS design, switch design, grounding design) I would trust the Taiko team 100%. The noise measurements are really objective and hard to argue with, for example. I have every upgrade possible with Taiko, and am waiting on the router and power distributor.

Where cables are concerned, however, I've always found that there's an element of subjectivity. Of course, the cable has to work in the first place (ie this isn't a 'locked' DAC cable as discussed earlier). Besides, I find that Taiko has seldom given clear guidelines on what cables to use either, and when they have it's been with clear caveats (eg. Intona for ultimate neutrality as a voicing tool, which is exactly what I wanted too so I bought it, in the recommended 1.5m length). Also voicing options in the power distributor and in XDMS. Heck, even with the USB drivers.

And with QSA there's a return policy so I was happy to try it for myself. I'm a card-carrying audiophile, after all

PS A bit of background, I have 4 different preamps, 4 power amps, and an integrated amp on top. I also have 3 different dacs. What can I say, I like variety- many options. Voicing doesn't matter to me too much when I look to upgrade, I'd rather get the maximum resolution and realism (and not 'fake detail'), and then I start tweaking with footers, cables, grounding, etc to get the voicing I want. I've found this always gives me an upgrade in the end. For example, they're a popular choice on this site, I know, but I just replaced all my Centerstage 2 footers (I have 12 1" and 8 0.8" CMS Centerstage 2 footers) with the much cheaper finite elementes because they work better for my system's voicing. Not planning to sell my CMS CS2 yet- I don't think they're inferior, they just do the job differently.

In this case, I put QSA under the 'upgrade' category, not voicing. You may have to revoice after.

 

[Steve Williams]

FWIW this is what they told me:


Personally, where there are clear technical benefits to one approach over another (LPS design, switch design, grounding design) I would trust the Taiko team 100%. The noise measurements are really objective and hard to argue with, for example. I have every upgrade possible with Taiko, and am waiting on the router and power distributor.

Where cables are concerned, however, I've always found that there's an element of subjectivity. Of course, the cable has to work in the first place (ie this isn't a 'locked' DAC cable as discussed earlier). Besides, I find that Taiko has seldom given clear guidelines on what cables to use either, and when they have it's been with clear caveats (eg. Intona for ultimate neutrality as a voicing tool, which is exactly what I wanted too so I bought it, in the recommended 1.5m length). Also voicing options in the power distributor and in XDMS. Heck, even with the USB drivers.

And with QSA there's a return policy so I was happy to try it for myself. I'm a card-carrying audiophile, after all

PS A bit of background, I have 4 different preamps, 4 power amps, and an integrated amp on top. I also have 3 different dacs. What can I say, I like variety- many options. Voicing doesn't matter to me too much when I look to upgrade, I'd rather get the maximum resolution and realism (and not 'fake detail'), and then I start tweaking with footers, cables, grounding, etc to get the voicing I want. I've found this always gives me an upgrade in the end. For example, they're a popular choice on this site, I know, but I just replaced all my Centerstage 2 footers (I have 12 1" and 8 0.8" CMS Centerstage 2 footers) with the much cheaper finite elementes because they work better for my system's voicing. Not planning to sell my CMS CS2 yet- I don't think they're inferior, they just do the job differently.

In this case, I put QSA under the 'upgrade' category, not voicing. You may have to revoice after.

I think what you said is key to it all. Try it in your system and compare to what you have now and decide if there is an uptick in SQ. It's really that simple. For me where I do take exception is having to buy 5 meters when all I need is a one meter length. Plus, let us not forget that if one does buy the QSA DC cable be prepared to buy another 5 meter length to connect your router to your switch. Here all I need is 0.5 meter length

 

[SwissTom]

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

One thing came to my mind today.

The switch and router make a coherent whole. The whole being more than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't it be possible to do something like that?

A single block with both PCBs?

I'd love to have something like that. More compact, simpler and visually more appealing.

 

[Steve Williams]

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

One thing came to my mind today.

The switch and router make a coherent whole. The whole being more than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't it be possible to do something like that?

A single block with both PCBs?

I'd love to have something like that. More compact, simpler and visually more appealing.

View attachment 111006

I can only imagine lifting that chunk of solid milled copper out of the box. It would weigh over 60 pounds

 

[Taiko Audio]

It looks like you have the makings of a good rugby team, too!

Steve Z

We have well developed backs from lifting Extremes for the past 5 years and the recent introduction of the switch really seems to aid in arm development.

 

[Steve Williams]

I can only imagine lifting that chunk of solid milled copper out of the box. It would weigh over 60 pounds

@Taiko Audio

Hi Emile,

One thing came to my mind today.

The switch and router make a coherent whole. The whole being more than the sum of its parts.

Wouldn't it be possible to do something like that?

A single block with both PCBs?

I'd love to have something like that. More compact, simpler and visually more appealing.

View attachment 111006

you'd get a good work out lifting this all day

 

[wil]

For me where I do take exception is having to buy 5 meters when all I need is a one meter length.

Again, the explanation given for the long DAC cable length is more copper will allow more of the treatment = better results.

Fwiw, I do know of two Extreme owners who find the Lanedri DAC cable to be an improvement over the standard.

 

[Steve Williams]

Again, the explanation given for the long DAC cable length is more copper will allow more of the treatment = better results.

Fwiw, I do know of two Extreme owners who find the Lanedri DAC cable to be an improvement over the standard.

seems there are several who have done the comparison......I have

I totally get it but why stop at 5 meters. There is no harm to compare it in one's system . This is the only way to decide if it works better in your system

 

[Steve Williams]

here's a final follow up question. What if the user needs an 8 meter length and is told that 5 meters work best

 

[Taiko Audio]

so if all you need is a one meter cable you have to buy a 5 meter cable because it works better??

From what I understood from the concept is that the treatment will have a larger effect with more copper mass. Longer DAC cables have more copper mass, the wire gauge can be larger in longer cables to compensate for the increased transmission loss over distance, and inevitably there’s more copper in total. I have no idea how it works BTW, nor have I heard it.

 

[Steve Williams]

From what I understood from the concept is that the treatment will have a larger effect with more copper mass. Longer DAC cables have more copper mass, the wire gauge can be larger in longer cables to compensate for the increased transmission loss over distance, and inevitably there’s more copper in total. I have no idea how it works BTW, nor have I heard it.

I understand that as well. But if 5 meters is the sweet spot how do you explain to the person who needs an 8 meter DAC that it won't perform as well as the 5 meter cable

 

[Taiko Audio]

...yes, but that said, they offer a set of filters in the distributor so we can "voice" to our liking. Also a setting in XDMS that changes the presentation. And they don't make a USB or power cable, so we're always using third-party products in our integrations with Taiko. It's all good!

Well although your “liking” will determine your choice of filters they’re not just “voicing” filters, they’re different filters which will do a better job with different noise spectra as for example generated by different makes/types of Linear Power Supplies and/or the noise spectrum of your mains system.