Anyone thought of sending one of these to Emile for testing?
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Perhaps not the right metaphor, but using QSA products with Taiko products seems like using Chinese herbal medicine with real antibiotics to treat an infection. Maybe the Chinese herbs have a benefit but I'd like the Taiko doctor to weight in before I would consider any of their products on the Extreme+switch+router+DCD. Taiko has gone to great lengths to voice their sound very carefully and I'm not sure I'm ready to use 3rd party anything until I get some sense from Taiko as to its merits. (Perhaps the 5m cable requirement is to leave room for a noose if their cable doesn't work out?)
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Totally agree.
There are several who have tried this DAC and compared to the generic DAC supplied with the switch, myself included
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Maybe it is only me but where I see the potential for DC cables is in the upcoming BPS but again I would defer to Emile's suggestion
...yes, but that said, they offer a set of filters in the distributor so we can "voice" to our liking. Also a setting in XDMS that changes the presentation. And they don't make a USB or power cable, so we're always using third-party products in our integrations with Taiko. It's all good!
FWIW this is what they told me:
Personally, where there are clear technical benefits to one approach over another (LPS design, switch design, grounding design) I would trust the Taiko team 100%. The noise measurements are really objective and hard to argue with, for example. I have every upgrade possible with Taiko, and am waiting on the router and power distributor.
Where cables are concerned, however, I've always found that there's an element of subjectivity. Of course, the cable has to work in the first place (ie this isn't a 'locked' DAC cable as discussed earlier). Besides, I find that Taiko has seldom given clear guidelines on what cables to use either, and when they have it's been with clear caveats (eg. Intona for ultimate neutrality as a voicing tool, which is exactly what I wanted too so I bought it, in the recommended 1.5m length). Also voicing options in the power distributor and in XDMS. Heck, even with the USB drivers.
And with QSA there's a return policy so I was happy to try it for myself. I'm a card-carrying audiophile, after all
PS A bit of background, I have 4 different preamps, 4 power amps, and an integrated amp on top. I also have 3 different dacs. What can I say, I like variety- many options. Voicing doesn't matter to me too much when I look to upgrade, I'd rather get the maximum resolution and realism (and not 'fake detail'), and then I start tweaking with footers, cables, grounding, etc to get the voicing I want. I've found this always gives me an upgrade in the end. For example, they're a popular choice on this site, I know, but I just replaced all my Centerstage 2 footers (I have 12 1" and 8 0.8" CMS Centerstage 2 footers) with the much cheaper finite elementes because they work better for my system's voicing. Not planning to sell my CMS CS2 yet- I don't think they're inferior, they just do the job differently.
In this case, I put QSA under the 'upgrade' category, not voicing. You may have to revoice after.
Personally, where there are clear technical benefits to one approach over another (LPS design, switch design, grounding design) I would trust the Taiko team 100%. The noise measurements are really objective and hard to argue with, for example. I have every upgrade possible with Taiko, and am waiting on the router and power distributor.
Where cables are concerned, however, I've always found that there's an element of subjectivity. Of course, the cable has to work in the first place (ie this isn't a 'locked' DAC cable as discussed earlier). Besides, I find that Taiko has seldom given clear guidelines on what cables to use either, and when they have it's been with clear caveats (eg. Intona for ultimate neutrality as a voicing tool, which is exactly what I wanted too so I bought it, in the recommended 1.5m length). Also voicing options in the power distributor and in XDMS. Heck, even with the USB drivers.
And with QSA there's a return policy so I was happy to try it for myself. I'm a card-carrying audiophile, after all
PS A bit of background, I have 4 different preamps, 4 power amps, and an integrated amp on top. I also have 3 different dacs. What can I say, I like variety- many options. Voicing doesn't matter to me too much when I look to upgrade, I'd rather get the maximum resolution and realism (and not 'fake detail'), and then I start tweaking with footers, cables, grounding, etc to get the voicing I want. I've found this always gives me an upgrade in the end. For example, they're a popular choice on this site, I know, but I just replaced all my Centerstage 2 footers (I have 12 1" and 8 0.8" CMS Centerstage 2 footers) with the much cheaper finite elementes because they work better for my system's voicing. Not planning to sell my CMS CS2 yet- I don't think they're inferior, they just do the job differently.
In this case, I put QSA under the 'upgrade' category, not voicing. You may have to revoice after.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I think what you said is key to it all. Try it in your system and compare to what you have now and decide if there is an uptick in SQ. It's really that simple. For me where I do take exception is having to buy 5 meters when all I need is a one meter length. Plus, let us not forget that if one does buy the QSA DC cable be prepared to buy another 5 meter length to connect your router to your switch. Here all I need is 0.5 meter lengthFWIW this is what they told me:
Personally, where there are clear technical benefits to one approach over another (LPS design, switch design, grounding design) I would trust the Taiko team 100%. The noise measurements are really objective and hard to argue with, for example. I have every upgrade possible with Taiko, and am waiting on the router and power distributor.
Where cables are concerned, however, I've always found that there's an element of subjectivity. Of course, the cable has to work in the first place (ie this isn't a 'locked' DAC cable as discussed earlier). Besides, I find that Taiko has seldom given clear guidelines on what cables to use either, and when they have it's been with clear caveats (eg. Intona for ultimate neutrality as a voicing tool, which is exactly what I wanted too so I bought it, in the recommended 1.5m length). Also voicing options in the power distributor and in XDMS. Heck, even with the USB drivers.
And with QSA there's a return policy so I was happy to try it for myself. I'm a card-carrying audiophile, after all
PS A bit of background, I have 4 different preamps, 4 power amps, and an integrated amp on top. I also have 3 different dacs. What can I say, I like variety- many options. Voicing doesn't matter to me too much when I look to upgrade, I'd rather get the maximum resolution and realism (and not 'fake detail'), and then I start tweaking with footers, cables, grounding, etc to get the voicing I want. I've found this always gives me an upgrade in the end. For example, they're a popular choice on this site, I know, but I just replaced all my Centerstage 2 footers (I have 12 1" and 8 0.8" CMS Centerstage 2 footers) with the much cheaper finite elementes because they work better for my system's voicing. Not planning to sell my CMS CS2 yet- I don't think they're inferior, they just do the job differently.
In this case, I put QSA under the 'upgrade' category, not voicing. You may have to revoice after.
@Taiko Audio
Hi Emile,
One thing came to my mind today.
The switch and router make a coherent whole. The whole being more than the sum of its parts.
Wouldn't it be possible to do something like that?
A single block with both PCBs?
I'd love to have something like that. More compact, simpler and visually more appealing.
Hi Emile,
One thing came to my mind today.
The switch and router make a coherent whole. The whole being more than the sum of its parts.
Wouldn't it be possible to do something like that?
A single block with both PCBs?
I'd love to have something like that. More compact, simpler and visually more appealing.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I can only imagine lifting that chunk of solid milled copper out of the box. It would weigh over 60 pounds
We have well developed backs from lifting Extremes for the past 5 years and the recent introduction of the switch really seems to aid in arm development.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I can only imagine lifting that chunk of solid milled copper out of the box. It would weigh over 60 pounds
you'd get a good work out lifting this all day
Again, the explanation given for the long DAC cable length is more copper will allow more of the treatment = better results.
Fwiw, I do know of two Extreme owners who find the Lanedri DAC cable to be an improvement over the standard.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
here's a final follow up question. What if the user needs an 8 meter length and is told that 5 meters work best
so if all you need is a one meter cable you have to buy a 5 meter cable because it works better??
From what I understood from the concept is that the treatment will have a larger effect with more copper mass. Longer DAC cables have more copper mass, the wire gauge can be larger in longer cables to compensate for the increased transmission loss over distance, and inevitably there’s more copper in total. I have no idea how it works BTW, nor have I heard it.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I understand that as well. But if 5 meters is the sweet spot how do you explain to the person who needs an 8 meter DAC that it won't perform as well as the 5 meter cable
Well although your “liking” will determine your choice of filters they’re not just “voicing” filters, they’re different filters which will do a better job with different noise spectra as for example generated by different makes/types of Linear Power Supplies and/or the noise spectrum of your mains system.
