Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[ctydwn]

Incredible. 900 pages. 18,000+ posts! 4 years and almost 4 months since @CKKeung prescient inaugural post and thread title. As SteveW has said, this is the most popular thread on WBF. I have learned likely over 9099% of what I know about digital playback and the importance of the network from Taiko and all the contributors/experts on this thread. And I feel each day we are learning new elements on the bleeding edge from what is such a transparent company like Taiko and the dedicated community. It makes for such compelling reading and learning - whether first thing with coffee or last thing with your favorite cocktail.

As a new comer I would be incredibly intimidated by its sheer length, but would say ease into it, grab a chair and witness in real time what has been an amazing evolution and only continues to pick up steam. Can only imagine where we’ll be in another 4 years as the plot continues to thicken.

 

[Audire]

The Extreme most certainly normally is plug and play. It's just when you encounter an issue that we need to dive deeper into the system. Normally, we can remote access it and resolve the issue but if for whatever reason we cannot get access remotely, a solution can be to connect monitor and keyboard and walk through some settings under our guidance.

Thanks. It’s those times of issues I’m concerned about. Unfortunately, that solution won’t work for me personally.

 

[Kris]

Joe,
Great question. I've also been following this thread but feel intimidated by the DIY complexity of Taiko. Is it viable at this time for a "plug and play" solution?

There are some people who just purchesed it and are playing with Extreme since, without upgrating it.
They are not bothering with this thred .

The quality is so much better than anything else that DIY people like myself moved to this direction
and are experimenting with that a lot. Sorty but we are designed to get everything from SQ available.

If you go via distributor they can carry all hardwere upgrates for you if available
( those are usually plug and play Like a switch)
Taiko tem can carry all softwere upgrates remotely.

There is no need to upgrate to play the music.
You can upgrate once a year for example or not to do it .

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks. It’s those times of issues I’m concerned about. Unfortunately, that solution won’t work for me personally.

Hi @Audire ,

It’s just something which is possible to do, however it’s virtually never used. Roon is ultimately software running on a computer, whether it’s a Roon Nucleus or any other server/streamer, they’re all computers. The option to use a keyboard/mouse/monitor is just an extra when experiencing network connectivity problems which is a viable option as it runs a windows operating system which most people know how to operate, any linux based streamer requires more advanced command line skills which very few server owners master.

The most commonly used tools on mobile devices to diagnose network issues assume wi-fi to be used, in this case the user does not want to use wi-fi at all, which makes him part of a very small group of customers (I know only of 3 in total), in which case he needs to either use an app which does not require wi-fi to be present, or connect a monitor/keyboard/mouse, as was suggested on the last few pages. But again, this is just an exception and not commonly used at all.

As far as hardware upgrades go, the 2 we launched involved plugging in a PCIe card, which is a standard operation for any computer. It should be easy to find a local operator willing to do that for you for a small fee and saves you from needing to ship it back and forth or from needing to sell it/trade it to a “newer model”.

 

[Audire]

Hi @Audire ,

It’s just something which is possible to do, however it’s virtually never used. Roon is ultimately software running on a computer, whether it’s a Roon Nucleus or any other server/streamer, they’re all computers. The option to use a keyboard/mouse/monitor is just an extra when experiencing network connectivity problems which is a viable option as it runs a windows operating system which most people know how to operate, any linux based streamer requires more advanced command line skills which very few server owners master.

The most commonly used tools on mobile devices to diagnose network issues assume wi-fi to be used, in this case the user does not want to use wi-fi at all, which makes him part of a very small group of customers (I know only of 3 in total), in which case he needs to either use an app which does not require wi-fi to be present, or connect a monitor/keyboard/mouse, as was suggested on the last few pages. But again, this is just an exception and not commonly used at all.

As far as hardware upgrades go, the 2 we launched involved plugging in a PCIe card, which is a standard operation for any computer. It should be easy to find a local operator willing to do that for you for a small fee and saves you from needing to ship it back and forth or from needing to sell it/trade it to a “newer model”.

Emile,

Many thanks. However, as I stated I have physical limitations. I’m not capable of moving the Extreme, much less plugging in a screen, etc. It’s not that I don't how to do it, it’s that I physically can’t! IMO the Taiko is an extraordinary machine, but I need something more plug and play. Thanks.


I listen to music at least 8 hours a day. If something happened then my dealer would have to travel 2 hours one way to assist me. That’s more downtime. I don’t desire to run into that problem …

 

[marty]

Emile
As we wait patiently for the router and DCD, can you share your thoughts on DC cables? Most of us will likely use 3; one from our LPS to the DCD; one from DCD to the router, and one from DCD to the switch. Fortunately they aren't expensive but some might encounter a slight production delay from the good folks at Ghent Audio so getting a head start on ordering would be nice. I've got a small collection of them (Mundorf, Gotham, Neotech, Canare etc.) but I'm guessing that due to the diverse number of LPS's that Extreme users will be using, it might be hard to recommend a specific "one size that fits all" cable for the 3 applications being considered. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Marty

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile
As we wait patiently for the router and DCD, can you share your thoughts on DC cables? Most of us will likely use 3; one from our LPS to the DCD; one from DCD to the router, and one from DCD to the switch. Fortunately they aren't expensive but some might encounter a slight production delay from the good folks at Ghent Audio so getting a head start on ordering would be nice. I've got a small collection of them (Mundorf, Gotham, Neotech, Canare etc.) but I'm guessing that due to the diverse number of LPS's that Extreme users will be using, it might be hard to recommend a specific "one size that fits all" cable for the 3 applications being considered. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Marty

We’ll supply 2 DC cables so you’d need one more I guess. Every cable has a sonic signature, similar to your plug plating explorations and you could extrapolate from that as far as material choices go, the good thing about the DC distributor is you can largely compensate by choosing a different filter.

 

[2ndLiner]

Emile,

Many thanks. However, as I stated I have physical limitations. I’m not capable of moving the Extreme, much less plugging in a screen, etc. It’s not that I don't how to do it, it’s that I physically can’t! IMO the Taiko is an extraordinary machine, but I need something more plug and play. Thanks.


If something happened then my dealer would have to travel 2 hours one way to assist me. That’s more downtime.

I listen to music at least 8 hours a day.

Hi Joe = As an SCNPTL (self confessed not proud tech luddite) I thought I’d offer some encouragement regarding hardware and software updates & upgrades. Since placing my Extreme on my rack I have never had to move it when doing an upgrade or update. I have a small listening room and it is doable but difficult to get behind my gear to make changes. With the Extreme this has been a non-issue. The hardware changes, i.e., swapping out a network card were a breeze even with my status as an SCNPTL. Software upgrades & updates are as simple as running an ethernet cable from my laptop to my router, contacting Ed with Team Viewer access info, and then getting out of his way If you have physical limitations that preclude you from accomplishing these tasks that is another story and I understand. In that case I wish we were neighbors as I would be more than happy to assist so that you might experience the sonic magic that the Taiko Extreme via XDMS and/or ROON, with their switch and soon to be available router deliver. I love the quality of sound that my system provides yet if I were to consider making changes the Extreme is the one component that would never leave! All this said, you have great taste in gear and will continue to experience excellent SQ whichever choice you make…

 

[seatrope]

Emile,

Many thanks. However, as I stated I have physical limitations. I’m not capable of moving the Extreme, much less plugging in a screen, etc. It’s not that I don't how to do it, it’s that I physically can’t! IMO the Taiko is an extraordinary machine, but I need something more plug and play. Thanks.


I listen to music at least 8 hours a day. If something happened then my dealer would have to travel 2 hours one way to assist me. That’s more downtime. I don’t desire to run into that problem …

Understandably your situation is different from many of us. I’m glad you have the pleasure of 8 hours of music a day!

I have to ask though - how would this be different with Grimm/Aurender? Do they never have issues?

 

[Audire]

Hi Joe = As an SCNPTL (self confessed not proud tech luddite) I thought I’d offer some encouragement regarding hardware and software updates & upgrades. Since placing my Extreme on my rack I have never had to move it when doing an upgrade or update. I have a small listening room and it is doable but difficult to get behind my gear to make changes. With the Extreme this has been a non-issue. The hardware changes, i.e., swapping out a network card were a breeze even with my status as an SCNPTL. Software upgrades & updates are as simple as running an ethernet cable from my laptop to my router, contacting Ed with Team Viewer access info, and then getting out of his way If you have physical limitations that preclude you from accomplishing these tasks that is another story and I understand. In that case I wish we were neighbors as I would be more than happy to assist so that you might experience the sonic magic that the Taiko Extreme via XDMS and/or ROON, with their switch and soon to be available router deliver. I love the quality of sound that my system provides yet if I were to consider making changes the Extreme is the one component that would never leave! All this said, you have great taste in gear and will continue to experience excellent SQ whichever choice you make…

Many thanks and I wish you were my neighbor. I very much appreciate your kind thought.

I was in a wheelchair for years. I’m no longer in one, but I’m still limited in what I can do. I normally walk with a cane when leaving the house, etc. On bad days I grab onto furniture and have a walker. So, bending down, hooking up cables, or lifting heavy things, just isn’t in my wheelhouse anymore.

Thanks again.

 

[Audire]

Understandably your situation is different from many of us. I’m glad you have the pleasure of 8 hours of music a day!

I have to ask though - how would this be different with Grimm/Aurender? Do they never have issues?

I presently use the N30SA. I haven’t had an issue with it since I’ve owned it. Updates are without glitches as well.

If I do have a problem, I contact Aurender thru the Conductor App and they fix it - they did so on our former N100H, it took app 45 min total. All I have to do is leave the unit on which I can do from the comfort of my chair. There are no screens to attach, etc.

 

[oldmustang]

I presently use the N30SA. I haven’t had an issue with it since I’ve owned it. Updates are without glitches as well.

If I do have a problem, I contact Aurender thru the Conductor App and they fix it - they did so on our former N100H, it took app 45 min total. All I have to do is leave the unit on which I can do from the comfort of my chair. There are no screens to attach, etc.

Joe,

Just to be clear -- the attachment of a screen to the Extreme for troubleshooting or updating is not a normal thing. All of the updates or troubleshooting I've ever needed done have been accomplished by remote by one of the Taiko staff or Emile himself, no screen required. They simply log into the Extreme via TeamViewer (free app). Very similar to Aurender in that respect.

Anything that would be so dire as to require hooking up a screen should also prompt a visit from your dealer to assist and make the problem right for you -- certainly I would expect that from any dealer I bought a component the price of an Extreme, two hour drive or not!

Steve Z

 

[marty]

We’ll supply 2 DC cables so you’d need one more I guess. Every cable has a sonic signature, similar to your plug plating explorations and you could extrapolate from that as far as material choices go, the good thing about the DC distributor is you can largely compensate by choosing a different filter.

This sounds exactly like the sort of fun any self-respecting audiophile with OCD would look forward to!
I'm going to love it!

 

[microstrip]

Joe,

Just to be clear -- the attachment of a screen to the Extreme for troubleshooting or updating is not a normal thing. All of the updates or troubleshooting I've ever needed done have been accomplished by remote by one of the Taiko staff or Emile himself, no screen required. They simply log into the Extreme via TeamViewer (free app). Very similar to Aurender in that respect.

Anything that would be so dire as to require hooking up a screen should also prompt a visit from your dealer to assist and make the problem right for you -- certainly I would expect that from any dealer I bought a component the price of an Extreme, two hour drive or not!

Steve Z

If you need to change something in the bios or the machine has any problem loading Windows you will need a screen, a mouse and a keyboard. But you will get full local support from the Taiko team on another PC in the room, no need to drive for two hours!

I think that, independently of type of server, if there is a problem booting the operating system there is no possibility of remote assistance for anyone.

 

[RUIN*ish]

@CKKeung

Do you have an update on your impressions of the QSA DC cable?

 

[Audire]

If you need to change something in the bios or the machine has any problem loading Windows you will need a screen, a mouse and a keyboard. But you will get full local support from the Taiko team on another PC in the room, no need to drive for two hours!

I think that, independently of type of server, if there is a problem booting the operating system there is no possibility of remote assistance for anyone.

Sorry, but I’d never be able to connect the screen or keyboard. So, my dealer would need to come down from AL to FL to do it. And then he would have to align his schedule with that of Taiko. Thanks, but at this time it just won’t work, but hopefully later it will….

(note my situation is unusual. This will work for most people.),

 

[EuroDriver]

Sorry, but I’d never be able to connect the screen or keyboard. So, my dealer would need to come down from AL to FL to do it. And then he would have to align his schedule with that of Taiko. Thanks, but at this time it just won’t work, but hopefully later it will….

(note my situation is unusual. This will work for most people.),

The XDMS Control App to will have a function where the App will start TeamViewer Quick Support on the Extreme and will send an email to support@taikoaudio.com with the ID and password.

Taiko Customer Support will see the email, and then TeamViewer in to the Extreme - no screen or keyboard needed

 

[seatrope]

I presently use the N30SA. I haven’t had an issue with it since I’ve owned it. Updates are without glitches as well.

If I do have a problem, I contact Aurender thru the Conductor App and they fix it - they did so on our former N100H, it took app 45 min total. All I have to do is leave the unit on which I can do from the comfort of my chair. There are no screens to attach, etc.

Your experience mirrors mine with the Extreme. I’ve never had to move or attach anything to troubleshoot.

In a large enough sample size though, regardless of whether it is Aurender, Grimm or Taiko, there will inevitably be isolated cases where remote support won’t be able to fix things.

Sorry, but I’d never be able to connect the screen or keyboard. So, my dealer would need to come down from AL to FL to do it. And then he would have to align his schedule with that of Taiko. Thanks, but at this time it just won’t work, but hopefully later it will….

(note my situation is unusual. This will work for most people.),

again I’ll say this. In my 3 years owning an Extreme I’ve never had to attach a keyboard or screen.

I’m uncertain what the incidence rate is where you would need to do so, and would like to know how it compares to the rates at which other servers need to be sent back to factory for repairs…

 

[microstrip]

Sorry, but I’d never be able to connect the screen or keyboard. So, my dealer would need to come down from AL to FL to do it. And then he would have to align his schedule with that of Taiko. Thanks, but at this time it just won’t work, but hopefully later it will….

(note my situation is unusual. This will work for most people.),

I know it is a private matter, but when reading your post I immediately though about plenty of local friends that would connect the screen and keyboard for me if needed. Surely the number would reduce drastically when I would have to explain them that the extremely heavy Extreme had to be moved ...

 

[Audire]

I know it is a private matter, but when reading your post I immediately thought mpeabout plenty of local friends that would connect the screen and keyboard for me if needed. Surely the number would reduce drastically when I would have to explain them that the extremely heavy Extreme had to be moved ...

Certainly that is a possibility, but I don't desire to treat my friends as such. It’s one thing if someone I trusted to touch my gear volunteered to do it once or twice, but quite another to be continuously dependent upon them.