How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

Esoteric-CD.jpg
There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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And normal people are all selling or giving away their CD collections, a great time to buy used CD's for almost nothing :)

True. You also can often buy *new* box sets for cheap money, for example 5-CD box sets for 25 or 35 bucks.

I once even bought a 33 CD set of complete Haydn symphonies for about a 100 bucks, which is about 3 dollars per CD. I still listen to it regularly.

My best box set purchase in terms of value for money was a 71-CD box set of Bach's complete cantatas for 77 dollars -- new.
 
True. You also can often buy *new* box sets for cheap money, for example 5-CD box sets for 25 or 35 bucks.

I once even bought a 33 CD set of complete Haydn symphonies for about a 100 bucks, which is about 3 dollars per CD. I still listen to it regularly.

My best box set purchase in terms of value for money was a 71-CD box set of Bach's complete cantatas for 77 dollars -- new.
Most classical music i dirt cheap, bought this 3 vinyl box for about 1 dollar.IMG_3024.png
 
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1. For digital, the CEC TL0 belt-driven CD transport, which blows away any streamer I’ve heard. It’s the best sounding CD transport I’ve heard in 35 years. Worth every penny. I have the original TL0, not the latest version which I haven’t heard.
I agree, CEC TL0 is the best transport I ever heard. It has the best musical flow and engagement to my ears. I would add Zanden 2000 as a close second when connected to Zanden 5000 dac via proprietary I2S cable. 47 Labs Pitracer can be equally good but I haven’t listened to it as much as the other two.

I recommend you to replace TL0 stabilizer with the new one. It’s a big improvement IMHO.
 
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i've listened to this new TEAC transport now most of the afternoon. initially it was brittle sounding, got a little better, but was very 'digital', even through the Wadax Reference dac with the upgraded Akasa DC cables. my plan was to listen for awhile before i tried the clock, but this was not looking good.

soooo, 45 minutes in, i switched my Shunyata Sigma v2 Clock 50 cable from the Esoteric T1 turntable to the TEAC transport. toggled the transport setting to 'clock 'on', the clock sync'd, and played a CD.

immediately, within a couple seconds it was transformed to something closer to the realm of the Wadax Reference Server w/power supply.....Level 4 Wadax streaming. natural balance and immersive, zero digital signature. i need a few weeks to know more where it stands relative to highest level streaming........but it does not suck. and so far my sense is that this is 'good enough' to function as a CD source in the short term to see if i want to keep it or even upgrade it later to the Wadax Studio Transport.

i have not been around transports for awhile. i know that the best interfaces make a huge difference in transport performance. but maybe even with the lowly rca S/PDIF interface (with a decent Shunyata Alpha v2 S/PDIF cable) when you add in a very spendy clock + the Shunyata Sigma V2 Clock 50 cable, that resembles a top level interface in some ways? i'm no expert here, just speculating.

i have no idea how good a clock one needs to push this modest transport to this level. but with this clock connected i am very impressed by what i'm hearing. obviously the Wadax is doing the heavy lifting. but without the right clock, likely don't bother with this transport. my streaming stomps it completely......and it was not very listenable to my ears.
If once it (Esoteric transport) caused a fatigue it’s very likely fatigue going to come back. Small changes take the edge of unsatisfactory sound just a little but enough to convince you that problem solved but a couple of days later problem comes back. Maybe you don’t like Esoteric transport sound either.
I find Esoteric players edgy, analytical and impossible to listen.
 
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If once it (Esoteric transport) caused a fatigue it’s very likely fatigue going to come back. Small changes take the edge of unsatisfactory sound just a little but enough to convince you that problem solved but a couple of days later problem comes back. Maybe you don’t like Esoteric transport sound either.
so far in three days of CD only listening, to all sorts of music, it's going in the opposite direction. the ease and liquid naturalness to the sound has only become more evident. my strong hunch, which i've already voiced on the other thread about my system changes and Ron's system thread, is that CD sound, any CD sound, is mostly about the clock and timing. i'm no techie as to why, but if there is any reputation of Esoteric digital for being fatiguing, it's not the transport which is the source. and not this clock. as there is zero feeling of that so far.

i've not streamed since i got the TEAC, or done any vinyl or tape. in the next few days i will get my Durand Tosca tone arm back from being upgraded to the Limited Edition level. Joel Durand will be here for that and i'll have him listen to his own CD and see what he says. it's hair shirt stuff which will test the naturalness of any digital playback.

it's fair to be skeptical. i can tell you i was not only skeptical, i was disappointed with my decision with little expectations for the clock until i heard what it did, and now continue to hear it.
 
I agree, CEC TL0 is the best transport I ever heard. It has the best musical flow and engagement to my ears. I would add Zanden 2000 as a close second when connected to Zanden 5000 dac via proprietary I2S cable. 47 Labs Pitracer can be equally good but I haven’t listened to it as much as the other two.

I recommend you to replace TL0 stabilizer with the new one. It’s a big improvement IMHO.
Pervious stablizer was better finished metal surface. I did not check but some believes the better dc Cable for CEC is effective .
 
The two best sources in my house are:

1. For digital, the CEC TL0 belt-driven CD transport, which blows away any streamer I’ve heard. It’s the best sounding CD transport I’ve heard in 35 years. Worth every penny. I have the original TL0, not the latest version which I haven’t heard.

2. For analog, it’s my fully restored Garrard 301 table outfitted with a true mono Miyajima Zero Infinity. Mono vinyl absolutely trounces any stereo LP I’ve heard. It’s like a different sonic galaxy. The timbres and dynamic of mono vinyl make stereo vinyl sound like AM radio, in some sense.

Streaming is nice and convenient. High resolution streaming, sadly, is no better and often worse than Redbook CD playback. Eventually streamers will get better. But I haven’t tried any true high end streamer like a Taiko or Wadax. So, my opinion here may get revised once I decide to invest in something like the Taiko Olympus. The streamer market is too volatile. I’m waiting till the dust settles.
Yes, CEC TL0 3.0 blows away all transports and all streamers.

Yes, many high rez files are not better than CD

I have listened to Wadax Streamer, I did not compare it to CEC but I can guess the CEC is better. I never liked Computer playback .
 
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Pervious stablizer was better finished metal surface. I did not check but some believes the better dc Cable for CEC is effective .
I don’t think it’s only related with finishing. New stabilizer has slightly different shape and backing that covers Cd. I’m sure DC cable makes a huge difference but requires a comparison for me to comment.
 
I heard top Burmester belt drive Cd transport couple of times. It’s also a very nice sounding transport but for my ears CEC is better in terms of musical flow.
the 3 different spdif connections sound so different, as if you were listening to 3 different devices. there is something for every personal taste, used for 3k€. it's not about the best, it's about synergy with dac.43473-2-43473b.jpg
 
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the 3 different spdif connections sound so different, as if you were listening to 3 different devices. there is something for every personal taste, used for 3k€. it's not about the best, it's about synergy with dac.View attachment 133430
I don’t think it (Burmester transport) has a better synergy elsewhere than with it’s own dac. That’s how I heard as far as I remember. Of course synergy with dac is important but it’s best when best transport paired with a dac with best synergy. BTW Burmester is half belt drive but still a very good transport IME/IMHO.
 
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... now I need a good DAC to connect via Coax
… I ended this debate by buying a Metronome CD Transport - sounds better than the streamed/ripped/downloaded music and brought the experience of playing CDs back… I actually went to the basement and starting setting up CD shelves again… why try making streaming sound as good as a CDT when you can just easily buy a decent CDT and be happy? Also I love collecting physical MEDIA - it`s a central part of enjoying the music to me.

Keeping it simple

1. Play vinyl when available
2. Play CD if vinyl is not available
3. Play stream/download when CD is not available

Can`t beat the logic ;-)

Cheers,
... now I need a good DAC to connect via Coax - any recommendations? Stay with Metronome or mix brands? I hear that Lampizator for example sounds best via USB? Is there really a difference when connecting different sources?
 
now I need a good DAC to connect via Coax - any recommendations? Stay with Metronome or mix brands? I hear that Lampizator for example sounds best via USB? Is there really a difference when connecting different sources?

You may know the answer to this already but if not I'd find out if Metronome optimized one of the digital outputs as using that one will matter quite a bit. I have a SimAudio 260DT transport in my 2nd system and connected it to the Modwright Elysee DAC via SPDIF ( Tchernov) as I traditionally did with any other CD transport. It sounded fine. However ,out of curiosity I contacted SimAudio and asked if they had optimized any of the digital outputs and the response was that the AES/EBU was. I purchased a Tchnerov AES/EBU to enable that connection and the increase in SQ was immediately apparent. Net net, I'd suggest not discounting the importance of the transport output as you decide on a DAC
 
You may know the answer to this already but if not I'd find out if Metronome optimized one of the digital outputs as using that one will matter quite a bit. I have a SimAudio 260DT transport in my 2nd system and connected it to the Modwright Elysee DAC via SPDIF ( Tchernov) as I traditionally did with any other CD transport. It sounded fine. However ,out of curiosity I contacted SimAudio and asked if they had optimized any of the digital outputs and the response was that the AES/EBU was. I purchased a Tchnerov AES/EBU to enable that connection and the increase in SQ was immediately apparent. Net net, I'd suggest not discounting the importance of the transport output as you decide on a DAC
reaching out to Metronome seems like a good idea
 
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After a recent upgrade to my system I think I have a new perspective on this question now. I have an Esoteric P-02X transport which while not their P1X is still regarded as one of the finest transports made. As I recently upgraded my DAC to the D1XSE mono dacs from Esoteric I found that while listening to the dacs both with and without the G1X clock that while the transport sounded much better than my W20SE connected via USB while using the external clock … without the clock the advantage the transport enjoyed was now gone and that I preferred the sound of the W20SE connected via USB over the transport connected via ESLink. That said with the clock the W20SE sounded even better connected via dual AES. The final comparison was with both Transport and W20SE connected via AES and clocked via the G1X and in that scenario the Transport did win by a small but noticeable margin. So I’m not sure the answer is as simple as Transport or Music server is better .. I think the answer is it depends like everything else on what the components are, how they are connected and what they are used with. I’ll likely upgrade my W20SE in the future to a Taiko Extreme so my perspective may change again! :cool:

George
 
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… done - I‘ll see what Metronome recommends…
I would recommend a DAC model with a tube output stage, because you can do a little fine tuning there. The sound characteristics of different tube manufacturers are very different and you can adjust them to the ideal sound. Then please use balanced outputs (output transformer). Even with an adapter to RCA cinch it sounds better than RCA cinch outputs. Have fun with it. The tube output stage usually uses ECC 88/6922. Recommended types are Telefunken CCa or Red Valvo E 88cc.
 
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After a recent upgrade to my system I think I have a new perspective on this question now. I have an Esoteric P-02X transport which while not their P1X is still regarded as one of the finest transports made. As I recently upgraded my DAC to the D1XSE mono dacs from Esoteric I found that while listening to the dacs both with and without the G1X clock that while the transport sounded much better than my W20SE connected via USB while using the external clock … without the clock the advantage the transport enjoyed was now gone and that I preferred the sound of the W20SE connected via USB over the transport connected via ESLink. That said with the clock the W20SE sounded even better connected via dual AES. The final comparison was with both Transport and W20SE connected via AES and clocked via the G1X and in that scenario the Transport did win by a small but noticeable margin. So I’m not sure the answer is as simple as Transport or Music server is better .. I think the answer is it depends like everything else on what the components are, how they are connected and what they are used with. I’ll likely upgrade my W20SE in the future to a Taiko Extreme so my perspective may change again! :cool:

George
When you are connecting the P-02X to the D1XSE DACs, which inputs are you using, dual-AES or dual HDMI?
 
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