DCS threatening Goldensound..What an industry this is

Ron Resnick said:
I think his name is Cameron. I sent him an e-mail to become acquainted.
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He's a 26 year old chap from the "English Riviera", as Bournemouth was called decades ago. Graduated in Economics (me too) and done a range of jobs since he was about 4.

His reviews are great, done over a long time and balance measurements with subjective opinion. Crowdfunded the purchase of an AP555 analyser. He speaks the King's English. If he has an ego, it's not on display. He gets loaned some items, when he wants to review something he buys it and sells it on afterwards.

I bought my DAC based on his review.
 
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JiminGa said:
As is always the case there are two sides here. Having watched the videos and read the DCS response several factors present themselves. 1) Goldensound made verbal and written statements about the Bartok which DCS claims are factually incorrect. These statements implied that DCS intended to deceive their customers which, of course, if your DCS would be highly triggering. 2) DCS says they provided Goldensound with a specific list of inaccuracies for him to retract. 3)DCS formally asked for the statements to be retracted and offered a meeting to discuss the situation. 4)Despite the offer no meeting took place at that time. 4)Representatives of DCS sent inappropriate threatening communications to Goldensound after they were unable to meet and iron things out with them. 5) In November of 2023 DCS apologized for the inappropriate communications. 6) An aggressive lawyer got involved which made everything much worse. 7) DCS is still willing to meet. This is not about censorship. This case is a microcosm of what we all go through now. Instead of talking with each other right up front and discussing the details of the disagreement they end up years later threatening a holy war and demonizing each other. How easy it would been to take the list of 'inaccuracies" to a meeting with DCS and go over it with them? No one here (me included) knows all the facts and yet we have people wanting to cancel DCS. My guess is that the responsibility for this mess lies on the shoulders of everyone involved in it and that there is no good/bad guy. There are just a bunch of people ,apparently with very average communication skills and little training in conflict resolution, banging into each other and causing chaos. Sound familiar?
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I could not agree more, and I do not believe WBF is the place for such matters to be aired. It is far too easy to miss something and jump to a conclusion. DCS DACs have never been my thing since I replaced a stack of constantly misbehaving four Vivaldi pieces for a client with one of Andreas Koch's brilliant MPD-5 players.

That said, DCS has been respected in the business for decades and is no fly-by-night garage shop operation. As the man said, someone got an attorney involved, and therein the source of many problems with our overly litigious society. One only needs to live in the here and now to see that rhetoric, no matter the source, is a huge problem in our intensely connected social media world.

Let's get back to debating if vinyl is better than digital! Only kidding:)
 
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gleeds said:
I could not agree more, and I do not believe WBF is the place for such matters to be aired. It is far too easy to miss something and jump to a conclusion. DCS DACs have never been my thing since I replaced a stack of constantly misbehaving four Vivaldi pieces for a client with one of Andreas Koch's brilliant MPD-5 players.

That said, DCS has been respected in the business for decades and is no fly-by-night garage shop operation. As the man said, someone got an attorney involved, and therein the source of many problems with our overly litigious society. One only needs to live in the here and now to see that rhetoric, no matter the source, is a huge problem in our intensely connected social media world.

Let's get back to debating if vinyl is better than digital! Only kidding:)
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Hi - I respect your opinion. I really do.

I hope you'll respect mine when I respectfully disagree with you and believe audio company behavior is absolutely fair game to be discussed on an audio forum.

dCS CHOSE to take this path, to hire an attorney, to send nasty unprofessional emails, and if the latest update by headphone.com is to be believed (I don't know if it is true or not) chose to lie and make it worse.

This is exactly the behavior by an audio company audio peeps should be discussing along with other audio topics.

Again - not meant in an argumentative way.
 
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Synaxis said:
Hi - I respect your opinion. I really do.

I hope you'll respect mine when I respectfully disagree with you and believe audio company behavior is absolutely fair game to be discussed on an audio forum.

dCS CHOSE to take this path, to hire an attorney, to send nasty unprofessional emails, and if the latest update by headphone.com is to be believed (I don't know if it is true or not) chose to lie and make it worse.

This is exactly the behavior by an audio company audio peeps should be discussing along with other audio topics.

Again - not meant in an argumentative way.
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I totally respect your POV Syanaxis. Onward!
 
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gleeds said:
I could not agree more, and I do not believe WBF is the place for such matters to be aired. It is far too easy to miss something and jump to a conclusion. DCS DACs have never been my thing since I replaced a stack of constantly misbehaving four Vivaldi pieces for a client with one of Andreas Koch's brilliant MPD-5 players.

That said, DCS has been respected in the business for decades and is no fly-by-night garage shop operation. As the man said, someone got an attorney involved, and therein the source of many problems with our overly litigious society. One only needs to live in the here and now to see that rhetoric, no matter the source, is a huge problem in our intensely connected social media world.

Let's get back to debating if vinyl is better than digital! Only kidding:)
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Coming from a sponsor of WBF and a dealer and someone who loves to network with all the major manufacturers at shows I am going to rate this opinion very low on the scale of voices that matter. All due respect, I think you're a nice guy. But I've been listening to gear longer than you have been a dealer, I know this industry too.

You sell audio equipment, go do that. We're discussing a controversy, and quite honestly it's ok for you to pick a side- I doubt it will impact your sales. No one is questioning DCS status in the industry as respectable, we're questioning this one decision to go after a reviewer for a review. Unfortunately it's not all sunshine and rainbows in this industry, it's all tied to money which goes without saying is the root of all controversy. Likely you understand there is an unfair ugly side to the industry you operate in.
 
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Skids, thanks for your feedback. I respect your point of view and agree that going after a reviewer expressing their honest opinion is wrong. Every industry has an ugly side, and high-end audio is certainly not immune. I have a different vantage point than you and see the not-so-good aspects of it in other places.

My first paid job in audio was when I was 16 years old. At 66, I have been involved in the industry for five decades. I am the US importer and distributor of five small overseas brands I deeply believe in. Rest assured, this is not a business one goes into to make as much money as possible, but it can be fun and rewarding.

As for WBF, I am proud to be a sponsor and do my best to contribute positively to the discussion.
 
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gleeds said:
Skids, thanks for your feedback. I respect your point of view and agree that going after a reviewer expressing their honest opinion is wrong. Every industry has an ugly side, and high-end audio is certainly not immune. I have a different vantage point than you and see the not-so-good aspects of it in other places.

My first paid job in audio was when I was 16 years old. At 66, I have been involved in the industry for five decades. I am the US importer and distributor of five small overseas brands I deeply believe in. Rest assured, this is not a business one goes into to make as much money as possible, but it can be fun and rewarding.

As for WBF, I am proud to be a sponsor and do my best to contribute positively to the discussion.
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How is it positive though to say this is not the forum for this to be discussed? What makes you the authority on what should and shouldn't be discussed and where? This is a forum, people discuss things, sometimes it's uncomfortable for people who sell the things being discussed. Not sure how it's positive to say a topic about this industry shouldn't be discussed on this site. Not like we're slandering someones Mom here, just a manufacturer who is butt hurt over a review and decided to get a lawyer. Where does it go from here? No more forums for public opinion? I mean most of us are intelligent enough to figure what is bologna and what isn't, we don't need you to decide where it should be discussed.

Maybe all that bothers you because you market gear here on this website. You want to be in the public space, be prepared to be questioned..That includes you and DCS. And if websites or "platforms" choose to censor anything be prepared for your business to be looked at differently and likely the desirability of your product as well.
 
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gleeds said:
Skids, thanks for your feedback. I respect your point of view and agree that going after a reviewer expressing their honest opinion is wrong. Every industry has an ugly side, and high-end audio is certainly not immune. I have a different vantage point than you and see the not-so-good aspects of it in other places.

My first paid job in audio was when I was 16 years old. At 66, I have been involved in the industry for five decades. I am the US importer and distributor of five small overseas brands I deeply believe in. Rest assured, this is not a business one goes into to make as much money as possible, but it can be fun and rewarding.

As for WBF, I am proud to be a sponsor and do my best to contribute positively to the discussion.
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To be fair to brands and distributors, there are absolutely "reviewers" with ulterior motives that do cause pain (on purpose) for companies.

Especially the dealer YouTubers who claim to be impartial on one hand while selling gear and services on the other. Or the outfits that sell pay for play. That's why I sell nothing, offer no services, and thus have no motives that could sway me other than honestly sharing my personal opinion.

My strong knee-jerk reaction to this entire debacle is what the emails I've read (granted there may be more we are unaware of) the supposed infraction by Cameron was at best minor and 3 years old and they tried to bully and steamroll him. Just my personal (thus open to being wrong) opinion.

But I absolutely agree with you the companies are not getting rich and are typically not the big evil blob some people make them out be. dCS in this instance appears to be that big evil blob though.
 
Ron Resnick said:
Does anyone know the fellow in the video?
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I have talked with Cameron mostly between 2-4 years ago, and participated in his Telegram and Discord channels. As a point of information, Cameron uses the Voice Chat feature of these platforms to answer chats almost exclusively, he rarely types his answers. So that voice recording was his standard way of 'texting'. Also, though I'm sure its different now with his connection to Headphone.com, but then pretty much all the equipment he reviewed was purchased, not loaned from manufacturers. Most at retail as well. In fact he would raise money to buy equipment on his channels, review the equipment, then sell it or raffle it off to his followers. So during the time he reviewed the Bartok he had very few industry connections, and no built in industry financial biases.

I had many emails and chats with him about DACs. He was one of the first people to review the Holo Audio May DAC, and I was in the process of finding the right DAC. So we talked a lot about the May DAC, and DACs in general. While he is mostly a headphone guy, and reviews around that, I actually respect his ears when it comes to DACs quite a bit.

He has a minority opinion which I share that the May's performance is in a class far above its price range (if you provide it with ancillaries and support you would provide the big guns). Also Holo produced the supremely transparent Serene preamp, which he and I have discussed ad nauseum. I ultimately did not get the Serene though.
 
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gleeds said:
I could not agree more, and I do not believe WBF is the place for such matters to be aired. It is far too easy to miss something and jump to a conclusion.
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I disagree, Gary. While we may not know all the details behind the scenes, we do know that this has been a major screw-up by dCS. Yes, we may not be able to judge every little move behind the scenes for the sake of fairness to all parties involved. Yet this becomes largely irrelevant in light of what is now indisputable public knowledge about what has transpired.

If manufacturers in this industry cannot be called out for their misbehavior -- and their obvious arrogance in some cases -- where are we with our hobby? Not in a good place, I would argue.

That said, DCS has been respected in the business for decades and is no fly-by-night garage shop operation. As the man said, someone got an attorney involved, and therein the source of many problems with our overly litigious society. One only needs to live in the here and now to see that rhetoric, no matter the source, is a huge problem in our intensely connected social media world.
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Agreed, that they got an attorney involved is exactly the problem.
 
As a lawyer, I can confirm that we can really gum up the works. I had a client who bitched often that all youse guys do is prevent business people from doing business.
 
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Joe Whip said:
As a lawyer, I can confirm that we can really gum up the works. I had a client who bitched often that all youse guys do is prevent business people from doing business.
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A good business lawyer obviously does not gum up the works for his/her business clients, but rather facilitates that business to proceed but in a slightly more protected way. This is especially true of in-house lawyers. An in-house lawyer who gums up the works for his/her business principals doesn't keep his/her job for very long.

Often I find it is the non-lawyers who complain about lawyers who are the first ones to scream when they feel aggrieved by someone "I'll sue you!"
 
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The high-audio industry is comprised of a few relatively large companies, and many small companies. Many high-end audio manufacturers start as one person effort labors of love, literally in their garages, and often with inadequate funding and with business planning as an afterthought.

The designers of our components come to audio from many different fields, but each designer wants to fill our ears and our souls with joy from the sound of extraordinarily reproduced music. These designers are filled with passion for emotionally-engaging sound, the pursuit of engineering perfection and the love of music.

These ingredients sometimes gestate business owners who are a little unprofessional, a bit emotional and a little immature, compared to business standards and levels of professionalism in other industries.
 
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Right’ but in this case the approach this particular attorney took was quite unhelpful though I don’t know what their instructions were. The unanswered question is why didn’t Cameron take up DCS’ offer to talk after he received their list of objections? All of this could have been avoided before all the ugliness. We have got to get back to the point where we can have substantive discussions with those whom we disagree with.
 
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Al M. said:
If manufacturers in this industry cannot be called out for their misbehavior -- and their obvious arrogance in some cases -- where are we with our hobby? Not in a good place, I would argue.
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Well said sir. Integrity and unquestionable morality / character seem to be in short supply and getting more scarce these days. IMHO society, in general, appears to be in a "bad place". Anything we can do to not contribute to this further decline is a worthwhile effort.
 
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Ron Resnick said:
A good business lawyer obviously does not gum up the works for his/her business clients, but rather facilitates that business to proceed but in a slightly more protected way. This is especially true of in-house lawyers. An in-house lawyer who gums up the works for his/her business principals doesn't keep his/her job for very long.

Often I find it is the non-lawyers who complain about lawyers who are the first ones to scream when they feel aggrieved by someone "I'll sue you!"
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I said can as I have seen it myself. I didn’t do much business law, just had to clean up the mess once in litigation.
 
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Ron Resnick said:
A good business lawyer obviously does not gum up the works for his/her business clients, but rather facilitates that business to proceed but in a slightly more protected way. This is especially true of in-house lawyers. An in-house lawyer who gums up the works for his/her business principals doesn't keep his/her job for very long.

Often I find it is the non-lawyers who complain about lawyers who are the first ones to scream when they feel aggrieved by someone "I'll sue you!"
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I think he was speaking from a macro level and I tend to agree considering alot of great companies refuse to to business in the US because of the litigious nature of the business climate here.
 
Ed.P said:
dcs.community

GoldenSound, headphones.com & dCS: an update

On July 15th I published a statement responding to videos posted by GoldenSound (Cameron Oatley) and headphones.com, which detailed recent communications between dCS and GoldenSound regarding a review of the dCS Bartók Headphone DAC. After reading headphones.com’s official response to this...
dcs.community dcs.community
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This literally gets worse for dCS by the day......

I'm going to say it - high level people need to be fired over both the initial handling of this and the current handling of this.
 
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