Aesthetix Io Users Group

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Thank you, again!

It turns out that while I have six of each of Amperex, Mullards and Telefunkens they are not matched. I will send them back to Brent Jesse and ask him to identify the four electrically closest ones in each brand.
 
Last edited:

OGH

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2020
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Ask Brent J, can he measure the noise level. Is it really impossible to get an idea, unless we listen to the tube in the Io itself?
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,220
13,683
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Ask Brent J, can he measure the noise level. Is it really impossible to get an idea, unless we listen to the tube in the Io itself?

I think it's safest if Brent will match sets of four.
 

abeidrov

VIP Donor
Dec 17, 2015
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Ron, below are the excellent posts by Albert Porter, which are normally referred to, whenever there is a question about IO tube rolling:
“I have used the Io for some time, and was the first to implement the dual power supplies. I have now done this with the Callisto as well. The Callisto is the matching preamp from Aesthetix. On tubes, I started with stock and after some break in, decided to change critical positions to improve the sound. The first four 12AX7 tubes (near the input jacks) are VERY critical, and any noise or microphonics in that position are going to make your life miserable. If you get professional help with any tube selection at all, make it these four. Other tubes that make a big difference is to replace the two Sovtek 6SN7 with the RCA 5692. The old military red base 5692 is the best, but the black plate RCA 6SN7 is a great choice as well. The Sovtek 6922 tubes used in the output of the Io are so bad, that almost any brand is better. I like the Telefunken 6DJ8, the Mullard 6922 white dot, and Amperex 7308 all nearly equal. The sound of these three sets of tubes is radically different, and the correct choice is in the ears of the beholder. The Sovtek 12AX7 tubes used in the outboard power supply, while audible, are not a good place to begin. Going to something extreme like the Telefunken 12AX7 ( as I have ) will be audible, however everything else needs to be at the limit, for this to pay off. Changing the EL34 tubes right beside the 12AX7's (still speaking of power supply) have a large effect on the sound. The two best are the MO Valve KT66 and the Mullard EL34. I have tried almost every tube that will plug in that socket, and these two are by far the best. To respond to the question of reliability, I run my Io 24 hours a day, NEVER turning it off. I pulled the Telefunken 12AX7 and MO Valve KT66 tubes from the two power supplies, and tested them against the recorded numbers from the year before. The loss in trans conductance was only about 12%. At this rate, the power supplies should run 24 / 7 for about 4 or 5 years. Upon testing the main unit, the numbers showed the 5692 (replacement for 6SN7) at about 15% loss in the first year, and the Mullard 6922 white dots (only about 6 months old now) show no loss at all. The main problem with this unit is the fact that ALL the gain is with 9 pin miniature tubes. There are no MOSfets or transistors at all to do this amplification. To make matters more volatile, the circuit uses NO feedback and is run with extremely high gain. This unit will take the .5 MV signal from a moving coil cartridge, and drive 40 feet of interconnect to amps requiring 5 volts peak to peak input signal. There is not another product requiring so much from the first few tubes in a step up stage. This simply means that some people are going to have terrible luck with plugging in tubes (especially UNTESTED) and others will have no problem at all. I think this unit fares pretty well as far as maintenance, but with the small signals from your phono cartridge being magnified with microscope like gain, care must be taken. If you have a problem or make a mistake, it will show up. The good news is that if this phono amplifier is set up correctly, it is without question the best product of it's type I have ever heard. The nearest competitor was the Magnum Opus phono from EASE. The EASE was the evolved version of the Counterpoint SA9, both units designed and manufactured by Mike Elliott. If the SA9 or Magnum Opus phono were still made today, I would tell anyone wanting zero hassle with front end tubes to give these units a listen. They are not as magic, silky or dynamic, because the first stage is a FET, but that FET resolves all the issues I spoke of concerning finding perfect tubes for the first stage. I hope this helps explain what and why and hopefully will allow others to make a decision you can live with. I would be pleased to offer suggestions as to which tubes, if a description of the current system sound is given, and a goal as to what you wish you could change about the sound and tonal balance.”
 

abeidrov

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“Regarding the comments by Bud and Rayhall, the 6922 Sovtek would be my first change. For additional midrange and air, try the Siemens 6922 CCa or the Amperex US Military 7308 CEP. If either of these produce too much midrange presence, try the Mullard 6922 (gold pin). Realize, that when you upgrade to one of these higher resolution NOS 6922's you are listening with more intensity to the weaknesses of the remaining (original) tubes. You are judging the replacement, plus all that it exposes downstream. If after changing to the CCa or CEP, you find that there is too much "grit" in the sound, try swapping the 6SN-7 as described in my long post. After that, if you are feeling adventuresome, trade out the first stage 12AX7 tubes (Io only). Note, these 12AX7's are the ones I warned about, get TESTED, ultra noise tubes for this position. My first choice and the most beautiful sound is the Telefunken 12AX7. Other options are the RCA 5751, a US Military version of the 12AX7. The 5751 will alter the tonal balance somewhat, as it is not an exact replacement. There will be a slight loss in gain, with improved signal to noise and lower distortion. Overall, the sound will be a bit more on the dry side. One final suggestion would be the 12AX7 French Mazda. A good sample of this will produce significant improvements in high frequency transparency, especially compared to the Sovtek. However, the Mazda has not been without problems in my experience. The samples I received are not equally reliable or equally low noise. Some will play perfectly for many months while retaining their original "voice" while other samples will develop horrible microphonics and tube noise in as little as a week. This is a situation that could lead to disappointment with the Io, when in fact, the tubes are the culprit. Unfortunately, there must be some risk and experimentation within your own system to determine what is best. All the tubes I have suggested here are expensive to buy right now and will become even more so as time goes by. You should never consider their purchase as a potential mistake. If these tubes do not work in your system now, there will come a time when they will be the perfect answer.”
 

oldvinyl

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2017
323
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Specific Northwest - Seattle area
Ask Brent J, can he measure the noise level. Is it really impossible to get an idea, unless we listen to the tube in the Io itself?
OGH - some of the tube testers measure the noise level. Some of them also have RCA jack outputs so you can plug it into a preamp and listen to the tube and noise, if audible enough. So you could actually connect the tube tester to the line input of the Io and listen to the noise level of the tubes through the line stage portion of the Io.
 

oldvinyl

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2017
323
367
195
Specific Northwest - Seattle area
Thank you, again!

It turns out that while I have six of each of Amperex, Mullards and Telefunkens they are not matched. I will send them back to Brent Jesse and ask him to identify the four electrically closest ones in each brand.
Another strategy is to use the NOS tube variant you like in the phono stage section for about 8,000 hours of operation. If they are still quiet, then move them into the power supply for the remainder of their lifespan.

I use my good Tele's for years in the phono stage, then put them in the power supply when I retube the phono stage.

I have had best results using low noise (tested/screened) tubes in the power supply.

Note that just about any low noise 12AX7 is ok for the power supply. In that usage, their "flavor" is not critical.
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Interesting. I am not ready to dig into the power supplies.

Today I sent 18 12AX7s and 4 6SN7s to Brent for pair matching and noise testing. (I bought all of these tubes from Brent originally.)
 

Josaa

Member
Jun 4, 2022
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Had an opportunity to meet Jim at an event in Stockholm earlier this week and also had dinner with him. He is an absolute wonderful person! Very interesting to hear about his history and design philosophy. We did listen to both Rhea and Io: same natural sonic cloth whith the Io having higher resolution and more space. It made me humble about tube rolling when I understood how they test tubes at the factory. I ordered an Io Eclipse in black with single ps and one input. My Ypsilion VPS-100 will see service in my second system.
 

pet525TT

New Member
Apr 2, 2023
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Dear forum members!
Many years Im a happy owner of an IO phono stage. But before a few month the magic smoke came out from the power supply. It was fixed over time but found the main power supply transformer is damaged to.
The voltages from the secondary windings are 710 and 930 volts. I tried to find information about the voltages but did not found. Im live in EU.
Is there somebody to know the secondary voltages of this transformer? If I think correctly there are many Aesthetix device with this type of transformer. Example the Callisto preamp.
Im really apreciate for any kind of information.

Best Peter
 

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oldvinyl

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2017
323
367
195
Specific Northwest - Seattle area
Dear forum members!
Many years Im a happy owner of an IO phono stage. But before a few month the magic smoke came out from the power supply. It was fixed over time but found the main power supply transformer is damaged to.
The voltages from the secondary windings are 710 and 930 volts. I tried to find information about the voltages but did not found. Im live in EU.
Is there somebody to know the secondary voltages of this transformer? If I think correctly there are many Aesthetix device with this type of transformer. Example the Callisto preamp.
Im really apreciate for any kind of information.

Best Peter
A couple ideas:
- contact Aesthetix and ask them
- contact Mercury Magnetics and ask them link to Merc Mag

I tried looking up that transformer, but no luck.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,220
13,683
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Welcome to WBF, pet25TT!
 

OGH

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2020
328
124
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@pet525TT - do you know why you got the 'magic smoke'? Just wear and tear, as effect of having the IO turned on over long periods? (heat x time) And / or some special context, like a bad tube?
 

pet525TT

New Member
Apr 2, 2023
14
5
3
45
I dont know the exact reason but we found many damaged parts. As rectifiers, capacitors, fets ....
We count the winding of the transformer and found the primari winding short-circuited.
But we still dont know the exact voltages of the transformer. This would be a good check point for the repair.
Get answer from Mercury Transformers but they send me they dont know the parameters because its too old product.
There is no answer from Aesthetix...
 

OGH

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2020
328
124
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72
Not much from my side, here - meaning that the Io works well, no problems.
For tube testing, check out Helmut Beck's RM1 tester, that can be setup to check the tube types you need, for electrical matching. No noise testing however (I have more or less given up, on this).
At the moment I am working with the designer of my speakers (Duke at Audiokinesis) to correct some over-eager treble, mainly in the 4000 hz region. Happens with the digital input too, and seems to have nothing to do with the Io (or the Atlas cartridge).
 

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