Aesthetix Io Users Group

[oldvinyl]

May be specific to Asthetix but not necessary to other good tube phono really. For example, EMT phono and Ayon phono are silent or at least as quiet as the CH P1.

The Ayon is step up transformer based and uses fewer tubes than the Io (hence less tube noise). The EMT and Aesthetix are both all tube ( no transformer). When I was looking for a tube phono stage, I wanted one without the transformer. The tube rush on the Aesthetix (before I made change to umbilicals and NOS tubes) with stock tubes was only audible only at extremely high settings of the volume control (past 3:00). The changes I made with cables and tubes were because I was interested in finding out how much performance I could get from the Io, not because of any inherent deficiency.

The perception of noise is also influenced by cartridge output, speaker impedance and amplifier input sensitivity. In other words, in order to make reasonable comparisons, the Aesthetix should be A-B compared in the same system with another phono stage. For me, this would be impractical since I don't have a second phono stage handy and I am already very happy with the Io (and have the time and effort invested into eeking out every ounce of performance from it).

 

[OGH]

Hi Chop

There may be better or almost as good phono stages out there, that fit your needs and tastes better. I can only tell from my own experience. I tend to prefer my Io to phono stages I hear in my friends' system, like the Manley Steelhead, Arc ph7, and the Grove, though I have not tested systematically.

I think we should stop the myth that the Io is "especially" hard to live with, or for masochists only. Not true. I did have a long period of repair, but it was not strange, after many years of use, wear and tear on the volume controls, combined with heat. Keeping the Io on, most of the time, to get the ultimate sound quality. Not a good idea, since this component like any other tube component uses its tubes, the remaining life time goes down. Also, less heat = lower chance of problems, over time. I've installed two computer fans behind my rack that run completely silent. Not costly or difficult. So in sum, yes, the Io makes some demands on the owner. But if you follow these, it is easy to live with.

 

[OGH]

Audioquest4life
I am not sure it the noise level went down with the Eclipse upgrade of my Io. Maybe a bit. Difficult to A-B test. My main impression from the Eclipse upgrade was that the nuance and musicality went up. Tonal color and texture. Musical "hereness". What was good before became even better. The change in noise level was less dramatic, but I have not found the Eclipse to be MORE demanding of quiet tubes than the original, as one might have imagined, since it is more revealing. Rather, I think it is on much the same level, with the basic version, the signature version (have not heard this), and the eclipse version. In all cases, the tubes determine most of the background noise. The Io by itself is quite silent. But I have no precise information, this is just from a user perspective.

 

[audioquest4life]

Audioquest4life
I am not sure it the noise level went down with the Eclipse upgrade of my Io. Maybe a bit. Difficult to A-B test. My main impression from the Eclipse upgrade was that the nuance and musicality went up. Tonal color and texture. Musical "hereness". What was good before became even better. The change in noise level was less dramatic, but I have not found the Eclipse to be MORE demanding of quiet tubes than the original, as one might have imagined, since it is more revealing. Rather, I think it is on much the same level, with the basic version, the signature version (have not heard this), and the eclipse version. In all cases, the tubes determine most of the background noise. The Io by itself is quite silent. But I have no precise information, this is just from a user perspective.

Thank you. I was told I would probably get a whole new set of tubes with an upgrade which is good because it will reset me back to baseline Aesthetix tubes from the factory again...which many have stated are pretty darn good as is. It is so easy to go into the rabbit hole in this hobby.

 

[oldvinyl]

A few more thoughts on the Io. If possible, use the balanced outputs. I have found the Io sounds better through the balanced outputs rather than the RCA single-ended. Depending on the amp, the balanced output will provide more drive signal and require less gain from the Io for equivalent sound level (loudness).

When I think about any upgrades for my system, I start with the question "what is the weakest link". In other words, which component is not on the same quality or performance level as the rest of the system. The answer never includes the Io. Any upgrades to amps/speakers/cables just let more of the Io magic through.

The tweaking and tube rolling discussed are not required to get excellent performance or enjoyment from the Io. One analogy is that the Io is like a Porsche 911. In factory configuration, the car performs well on the street and on the track. Upgrades to engine controls, exhaust, tires/wheels, catalytic convertor only add 10-15% measurable performance increase (in other words not a lot relative to the expense). Also meaning that the 911 (as the Io) is already tuned for best performance the way it is built.

I also find that after 20 minutes (one LP) the sound is already settled in. Anything after that is icing on the cake.

 

[OGH]

Oldvinyl, I agree.
Balanced output is best - my experience also. I use JPS Superconductor 3 xlr cables from the Io to the preamp, and then the less costly Superconductor FX from preamp to amps, thinking that the first part of the chain is most critical. I like the JPS 'sound' (or lack of it) and have moved up in their line. There may well be cables that bring out the Io strengths even better - I don't do much A-B testing of cables these days, although I do get an impression, over time, what cables I like best.
Upgrades - more of the Io magic - yes, and even more so, with the partial eclipse upgrade.
After 20 minutes - well, ok, but I would say, play a bit more, before recording or serious listening. 40 or 60 minutes won't hurt the sound. Icing on the cake can be nice.

 

[OGH]

Which LPs benefit most from playback (and recording) from my analog chain (Lyra Atlas, Io)? Here are some newly bought LP impressions. Maren Selvaag: bare være - very good. Deep Purple: Whoosh, also quite good, somewhat surprising, given the dense and somewhat murky production. Blue oyster cult: The symbol remains - not recorded yet. First thought, BOC has a sad production story, why don't they get it right. But maybe I need to listen more, there is a point to the hard sound of the album. Manfred Mann: Lone arranger - great on LP direct, also great sound from my DSD recording.

So the conclusion seems fairly clear. The better the sound from the LP the better the sound from the Io, and from recordings made through the Io.
I guess this is no great news, to many of you. But maybe interesting as an updated finding, comparing the LPs direct, digital recordings, and Tidal streaming of the same albums.

 

[audioquest4life]

I love BOC Don’t Fear the Reaper. In fact, I use this song to test changes in sources, cartridges, or any tweaking I have done to hear what the cymbal solo sounds like. The IO allows the sounds to come through so clear...and the cymbal splash on this song during the solo is just awesome. It’s only a 4.99 album and it does sound like a 4.99 recording. On the contrary, my Sade 4.99 album sounds so organic and full of spaciousness. It is evident that when we achieve this level of performance our equipment allows us to hear differences in better quality recordings even on regular records.

 

[audioquest4life]

? Does anyone know how many watts the dual IO power supply configuration uses? I have a watt meter and will test the one power supply usage For my current configuration. Thanks in advance.

 

[dan31]

? Does anyone know how many watts the dual IO power supply configuration uses? I have a watt meter and will test the one power supply usage For my current configuration. Thanks in advance.

I think the single power supply pulls just over 300 watts. Hi Fi News in the UK measured 310 watts.

 

[audioquest4life]

I think the single power supply pulls just over 300 watts. Hi Fi News in the UK measured 310 watts.

Thank you.

 

[audioquest4life]

Here is the power draw in watts, about 310 with one power supply for the IO. The other power draw pic depicts the total draw of power as indicated on the PS Audio P5 (it goes back and forth from 396 to 484, not sure what’s up) that the IO and other devices are plugged into are using. I also have a total power draw of 480watts measured at the wall outlet where the PS Audio P5 is plugged into and all devices to include the IO are plugged into the P5 unit and powered on.

 

[Lagonda]

Here is the power draw in watts, about 310 with one power supply for the IO. The other power draw pic depicts the total draw of power as indicated on the PS Audio P5 (it goes back and forth from 396 to 484, not sure what’s up) that the IO and other devices are plugged into are using. I also have a total power draw of 480watts measured at the wall outlet where the PS Audio P5 is plugged into and all devices to include the IO are plugged into the P5 unit and powered on.

The PS Audio power regenerator is a power amp that produces clean AC power, it will fill the internal capacitors as it uses the incoming power, that’s why you see the fluctuation. The process has some loss which is converted into heat. The early models had a loss of about 50%, the later models where much more efficient, but kept on breaking down. I do not know how efficient the current models are.

 

[audioquest4life]

Hi Guys,

I’d like to add at least one entry in this thread.

I purchased my Io with volume controls in 2000 and added a second power supply shortly afterward. This fall it was upgraded to (partial) Eclipse status and a second phono input added. Carl Jerritts at Apex Audio helped me with many details. Of course Glenn and Jim did as well.

Recently I had what turned out to be a tube problem, but I did not recognize it at the time. Jim phoned me three times over the Labor Day holiday with tips on sorting the problem.

Such customer support is exemplary and deserves every bit of praise these guys receive and deserve!

The Eclipse is spectacular! It lost nothing to the Signature, and gained so much.

My setup:

View attachment 70256

The Eclipse control unit and both power supplies are sitting on Takio Audio Daiza platforms.

The control unit is using Symposium double Rollerblocks, and the two power supplies use BDR #4 cones.

I previously had a Symposium Ultra shelf under the control unit & Rollerblocks, and the Diaza gives a more natural sound!

On top of the control unit I presently have two modified Herbie’s SuperSonic Stabilizers (a mouthful), lightened, and sitting on two 5/8” diameter pieces of the Herbies rubber isolators that come with the discs.


View attachment 70257
The two power supplies each have one stock Herbie’s (shown on left) with no rubber underneath.


I have replaced the tubes in V1-V6 of the control unit with Telefunken matched pairs (V1 & V2), and Mazda Gray Tops in V3-V6. I have Herbie’s tube dampers on the Mazdas, but the Telefunkens neither need or like them.

I tried a number of 6922s in V7, but ended up with the Eclipse supplied Electro Harmonix tubes sounding best.

Jim left the original, 20 year old 12AX7s in my power supplies, saying that they were better than what he had today!

The EL34s in the power supplies and the 6922s in the control unit (V7) are recommended for replacement in 3-5 years. (They can last up to 20 years, but the sound degrades)

I am using Synergistic Research fuses in most of my equipment, and had used them on the circuit boards of the Io Signature, but I have been unable to make a SR fuse sound good in the Eclipse. I even ran some on the Cable Cooker and they bombed as well. Fortunately, there is no need for them in my Io at this time.

I have Clearaudio cartridges, so there is lots of quiet output, especially important with my Avantgarde Trio horns.

Best,
Don

@redcars,

I saw that you upgraded from IO Sig to partial Eclipse. I am getting ready to do the same.

How long did you have to wait for the upgrade in terms of shipping back to you? I am somewhat hesitant to ship just before the holiday season as I don’t want to be without analog music during down time. I am packing up today and shipping tomorrow. But, might change my mind. Glen says they will do what they can. Thank you.

PS And off topic...Redcars name means you like red cars? Me too.

 

[audioquest4life]

Well I did it, I sent the IO to Aesthetix for a partial Eclipse upgrade with dual and updated power supplies. It was almost a no go...I was seriously considering the Alnic 8000.

My only hang up with the IO is that when maxed out with dual power supplies the heat will be overbearing. I am looking at getting a split AC unit installed for the cave as it is really snug and warm with all electonics on.

For now, looking for a temp tube phono stage until my IO comes back in a refreshed and updated state.

 

[dan31]

I think you made the right decision. I don't know of another all tube MC phono preamp that can compare to the Io. Most uber phono preamps pair step up transformers or SS stages. The Io is so unique in how it does what it does so well. It has trade off's but you have accepted those.

 

[OGH]

I had tough luck - I first upgraded to partial eclipse, at the factory, and then, a couple of years later, I had to ship all three boxes across the Atlantic once more, due to problems, mainly with the volume controls, it turned out. The eclipse upgrade was a big sonic step up for me (but I never had the signature, just the basic model).
The heat isn't too much for me, but I am living up north, in Norway. Even here, some tweaks are worth it, like computer fans, cheap and easy to install so they run silent, behind the Io. In our room, an air purifier cools the air a bit and helps us play LPs without too much dust. Hepa filter.
Watts - no idea what the Io uses, but from my experience, turning it ON, with two power supplies - the heat resembles what we would get from a 600 or so watts oven. Which is actually nice in winter, in Norway.

 

[OGH]

Audioquest4life - be sure that Aesthetix tests the whole of the Io, now that it is at the factory, including possible wear and tear etc. You dont want to send it back because they overlooked something. Get a full service + the upgrade, not just the upgrade.

 

[OGH]

A backup or temporary phono stage - while the Io is away for upgrade or repair - can be a good idea. I was in that situation, and tried several cheap phono stages with dismal results. To get acceptable results I bought a (used) ASR mini basis mk2 (500 usd). Interestingly, I felt that their sound philosophy was not so different from the one at Aesthetix. Compared to the Io, the ASR mainly "sinned by omission, not commission". So I could live with it, playing LPs, while the Io was away. Yet it was not a similar pleasure. I very well remember the day when the repaired Io returned, plugging it in, a giving a big sigh - yes THIS is how it is supposed to sound. But for a fraction of the cost the ASR does the job quite well.

 

[audioquest4life]

A backup or temporary phono stage - while the Io is away for upgrade or repair - can be a good idea. I was in that situation, and tried several cheap phono stages with dismal results. To get acceptable results I bought a (used) ASR mini basis mk2 (500 usd). Interestingly, I felt that their sound philosophy was not so different from the one at Aesthetix. Compared to the Io, the ASR mainly "sinned by omission, not commission". So I could live with it, playing LPs, while the Io was away. Yet it was not a similar pleasure. I very well remember the day when the repaired Io returned, plugging it in, a giving a big sigh - yes THIS is how it is supposed to sound. But for a fraction of the cost the ASR does the job quite well.

Thank you for the inspiration...deep down inside I know the IO reproduces beautiful music. I, like the rest of you IO owners, have settled on the fact that the IO’s Sound merits outweigh the heater. No noise fans, hmmm. What brand? I do have an ultra silent Oscilating hepa filtration fan I could use in the room. Why did I not think of that, LOL.

I will definitely ask Glen to have the techs do a thorough checkup on all aspects of the IO. I already asked if the newer IO’s had better or updated RCA and XLR JACKS and if I could get those swapped out too. Also, looking to add the HRS couplers to add to the IO when it gets back as that’s part of the full Eclipse upgrade. I am not sure how they can be made for Aesthetix specifically as each application goes under chassis and not the feet.

About the ASR, ironically, I listened to the ASR Basis Exclusive while in Germany as it was a contender at the time For my next phono stage.