I don't know about that, either. The AN nickel transformers (out of the UK) are absolutely special. Very fantastic and not an imitation of anything that I know of.
Audio Note UK vs Audio Japan Sonic Differences
- Thread starter caesar
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I can agree with the notion that the UK is a master of imitation in the sense that they have not built their products from the ground up. They have for example bought Guy Adams' Voyd Turntables (and hired him) as an engineer. He designed the OTO. They hired Rogers engineer Andy Whitt;e to make the AX and AZ Speakers. The AX One is a drop-in replacement for a Rogers RS-1. Snell speakers, Systemdek II turntables - NOS DACs go back to the original Sony Philips CD players technology. Kondo-San/Andy Grove and inspiration from CEC and Technics and Black Gate and Goldring and Helius and so forth. Generally upgrading the parts of what they deem proven designs.
Quentin Tarantino did/does the same thing in film. Toyota copies Ford - they just took what came before and made it much better than Ford and then people liked it better and it grew to be bigger than Ford. The proof will be in the sales. In the high-end arena where people are spending 6 figures on amplifiers, they are doing their homework and their auditioning. While I am not an American, the notion "the market will decide" is applicable. The subjective nature of whether something is good or bad is frankly inconsequential because each person makes those determinations. Regardless of my likes or dislikes, Michael Jackson was a quality talent whose music did nothing for me. There are many highly regarded audio companies and components that have done little for me.
Indeed, what I try to say to newbies is to ignore most of the stuff on the net because it can sway your opinion of what you heard. Make a list of your favourite systems and what components were being used and then when you read comments that something else was better and it is from a poster or reviewer you have agreed with in the past then take the time to check it out.
I have never liked Magnepan - but I always try and audition them to see if they can spark the passion in me that so many people feel about their speakers. Perhaps one day one of them will. I want them too because they're light and relatively inexpensive and you can move them around easily. But as yet they've not worked for me.
their lower level products are just ok, you can get better quite easily. I have not compared their higher level stuff
Examples?
EDIT
That's probably an unfair question because every single person who buys Audio Note bought it because they felt it was the best sounding thing out of everything they auditioned. I mean no one is buying it for aesthetics or features - indeed, they probably lose sales to people who buy their 2nd choice on those grounds alone.
There is no way to "win" this argument with people. The only thing that people can do is make appeals to authority, to sales figures, to measurements etc. Or they can go by their own "feelings" as if they were facts.
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When discussing parts quality etc I would like to see which competitors and specific products with video/photos are designing and manufacturing their own resistors, capacitors, valve bases transformers. There won't be many if any.
I'd also like to know which amp maker custom designs for tubes like the DA100 and other rare tubes - it's hard to be an imitation when you're the ONLY company that makes amplifiers for these tubes.
skip to 10 minutes
Aries Cerat , 813/814 https://aries-cerat.com/concero-65-signature-product-page/
KRAudio , Kronzilla range of amplification running their own T1610 design output valve http://www.kraudio.com/amps.html
Wavac with their HE-833
NAT Audio , https://www.nataudio.com/products/vacuum-tube-power-amplifiers.html
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That’s exactly what an imitator does, imitating everything. Silver transformers, capacitors etc imitated from Kondo. Concentrating on what you do best is the key to better sounding products.
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I would have bet my Overture that this thread would turn "political" 
But this is all good. It reminds me the first time I seriously met with AN UK. It was at a show, I said to the dealer/distributor: "Congrats, it sounds very good". He answered: "Glad that you like it, if you have any questions please don't hesitate". Then I went: "Well, there have always been a question in my mind, what is exactly this thing of AN UK and AN Japan?!". "Oh this a long story!!" he finished...
But this is all good. It reminds me the first time I seriously met with AN UK. It was at a show, I said to the dealer/distributor: "Congrats, it sounds very good". He answered: "Glad that you like it, if you have any questions please don't hesitate". Then I went: "Well, there have always been a question in my mind, what is exactly this thing of AN UK and AN Japan?!". "Oh this a long story!!" he finished...With the only caveat that the bias resistor going from the output transformer primary centre tap to ground (R12 on the schematic) is underrated. It is a 180R resistor with 26 V across it. This means it is dissipating 3.75W, but the original component is only rated 3W. That's why so many old Quad II amps have overheated output trannies leaking tar. If you can find a good original example, the first thing you should do is swap this with a wirewound resistor rated 10W or above.
Perhaps I wasn't clear. a customer goes to AN UK with a D100 tube and says "no one makes an amplifier for these tubes" Audio Note UK says - we will design from the ground up an amplifier for your tube - as shown in the video.
I looked up Wavac HE 833 - it says "Our Transformers are the custom-built by the most renowned supplier in Japan"
Aries Cerat doesn't state that they design and manufacturer their transformers in house - the 813/814 are not ultra rare tubes https://www.rfparts.com/tubes/814-beam-power-amplifier-tube-nos-nib.html and I could not see where they have designed and in house manufactured their caps/resistors/transformers.
I could not see this for NAT Audio either for designing and manufacturing their own internal parts.
I think custom is okay depending what that means. If it means they have designed a transformer and then worked with say a Tamura, Hashimoto etc and they have worked together to make a transformer that ONLY NAT uses and no one elses uses and it's not some "tweaked" transformer that they are already making for other companies that is on a higher level than just buying from stock. Still. I kind of like to see the video and photographic evidence. Perhaps because I live in Asia and I see companies selling amps that have RuDycon caps because the forger is dyslexic he should have printed RuBycon. Oops.And companies like Theta Data who just put in $300 laserdisc players with their own cover and up charge 10+ fold. I see a lot of websites with a lot of pretty pictures of external casework and little mention of what's inside.
Exactly, Peter Qvortrup was a dealer and manufacturer and importer - he travelled the world looking for the best stuff - the best stuff was being made by Kondo-San. That's why he became a dealer /importer/partner for AN Japan (a complete no name working out of his house - that is sure doing your homework as an avid music lover - I don't see many people today scouring the world to find the best sound. I think you seem to be seeing this as a negative thing but I am not sure why - you take someones amp and you say right this thing is noisy but it hase some huge advantages - so Peter gets his engineers to "fix up Kondo's 211" and he says right this thing is too noisy hissy and hummy and no one is paying $60,000 for this - now let's teach these guys some QC and how to take out the noise so people can actually hear the glorious silver transformers and silver caps by the great silversmith Kondo-San.
Once AN UK fixed it so someone could actually listen to why it's so great then it's time to give it a name - Peter figures hey why not name all these things after Japanese words for musical terms inEnglish - OTO=Sound - Ongaku = Music. (He's now doingt he same thing with Tonmeister/Konzertmeister/Kapellmeister.
Damn straight - Peter deemed the Silver caps and transformers the best in the world. What ar eyou saying that he should copy all the inferior companies who are not making Silver Caps or using Black Gates, or Silver wound transformers? I mean which is it - seems like he can't win - merely using silver caps means he's a bum who copies - so please tell me which amplifier first used a copper cap - all other companies who use a copper cap ALL MUST SUCK because they copies? What was the very first tube amp? Any company that uses a tube since s a copier - their all bums - but wait Kondo wasn't the first guy to use tubes - he copied the idea - he is a bum.
This is typical dimwit logic from people with an agenda.
I guess you mixed up imitation with inspiration. Every artist and artisan inspires from predecessors but they add originality in their work. Your prior examples like Quentin Tarantino and Michael Jackson are good examples of originality in their art giving inspiration but also they’re inspired from other artists. From my point of view AN UK is just an imitation of Kondo, no originality.
BTW the claim that Peter Qvortrup sent his engineers and fixed Kondo components, named them etc are the funniest and the most absurd things I ever heard about this subject.
It was not a critique, just an observation. Replacing the coupling caps is not optional as the leakage they eventually develop can take a tube and even the output transformer.
Hi dcathro,
I’m more of a listener than owner. I have some Kondo stuff though.
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The AN passive components are generally excellent, right down to their tube sockets, in my experience. The one exception would be their electrolytic caps, where I think the AN offerings are middle of the road at best.
Peter Q:
"I wanted to continue to pursue sound quality through further exploration of the single-ended output stage and all manners of transformer coupling.
Mr. Kondo felt in contrast and I believe still feels, as he showed a push-pull 2A3 amplifier at the London High-End Show in September 1999. Firstly, that the push-pull triode output stage can somehow be developed to marshal a return to superiority and secondly that transformers only belong in the output stage of power amplifiers. I always considered this an abandonment of our basic principles and since Kondo-san never presented me with any push-pull prototype that proved to be better than any of the SE amplifiers he made, so I have stuck to my views.../...in early 1994 ANUK even paid to send an engineer to Japan to teach and train AN-J staff in quality control procedures, product consistency and layout (amongst other matters showing them how to get the power supply quiet enough to remove the feedback from the ONGAKU). Techniques and concepts that did not at the time exist in any measure at the AN-J factory, one of many such small investments that helped make the AN-J products more saleable."
"I named all the products, ONGAKU, KEGON, GAKU-ON etc. and I have the correspondence to prove this, we use Japanese names for the UK products as well, what more can I say?"
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I am pretty sure that were I crazy enough, Stavros would be quite happy to custom build me an amplifier running stupidly rare and stupidly expensive power output valves ! No problemo
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