"Black Backgrounds" in Music Reproduction?

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
18,332
15,999
3,530
Beverly Hills, CA
For audiophiles who value the sonic attribute of "black backgrounds" what does this term mean to you?

How do you seek to achieve the sonic objective of black backgrounds?

When I go to Walt Disney Concert Hall I do not hear black backgrounds. I hear a fairly high level of ambient noise, including attendees shuffling around in their chairs, coughing, whispering, sniffling, musicians turning pages, etc.

Out of my list of possible objectives of high-end audio I personally seek to "recreate the sound of an original musical event" or to "create a sound that seems live." Neither of these objectives prioritizes black backgrounds, because I do not hear black backgrounds at Walt Disney Concert Hall.

What do you think about the audiophile attribute objective of black backgrounds?

Do you care about black backgrounds?

If you care about black backgrounds, how do you achieve them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mtemur
(...) Neither of these objectives prioritizes black backgrounds, because I do not hear black backgrounds at Walt Disney Concert Hall. (...)

It will be mostly a semantic debate - IMO you listen to ambient noise, including attendees shuffling around in their chairs, coughing, whispering, sniffling, musicians turning pages because good concert halls have excellent black background. BTW, Michael Fremer often uses this terminology - googling in his reviews we found nice discussions and explanations about components achieving black backgrounds.

If you care about black backgrounds, how do you achieve them?

Proper acoustics is mandatory - you do not get black backgrounds absorbing everything and a balanced choice of equipment that matches your room. Unfortunately there is no magic receipt for it.

BTW - black background is not signal to noise ratio!!!

IMO, in a decent room, we do not get black backgrounds - we avoid adding artifacts that destroy it.
 
I would suggest that those that are seeking a black background, abyss, or bottomless pit in their noise floor are preferring a studio recording vs a live performance.

Dolby Labs has attempted to reduce noise over the decades but that seemed to vail the music and make it sound dull, at least to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Holmz and Opabin
IMO you listen to ambient noise, including attendees shuffling around in their chairs, coughing, whispering, sniffling, musicians turning pages because good concert halls have excellent black background
This.
 
For audiophiles who value the sonic attribute of "black backgrounds" what does this term mean to you?

Simply put? To me, an extremely low noise floor. The ability to "see" the black in between instruments or singers, in a well recorded and mastered selection that has minimal manipulation and few instruments/singers in the recording. To have a system that creates sounds no where near the speakers that simply appear out of nowhere and go anywhere within the room. It means having a system that doesn't mask or cover up all of the subtleties that render a reproductive effort "not sound live". Part of this (to me) also includes not having an overponderance(s) of any of the lower frequencies that can mask these subtleties as well.

Having a signal that is amplified that is as pure as possible, without any unwanted artifacts that would affect the end result as to what hits my ears. The ability to know the height, depth and width of a sound or instrument (and the "aura" within or around said singer/instrument) whether or not my eyes are wide open or closed.

Being able to experience that visceral impact at home, in front of one's system, just as they would at a live event (or as close as possible). For instance, if you are listening to a stomp dancing performance that utilizes the entire stage as a drum, we will never get that same visceral impact from any system. Same with a lightning strike. There is only so much that systems can do with the technology humans have or will most likely ever have. But lesser visceral impact should be easily achieved for realism. A example of that would be the initial whack of an instrument, followed by the natural roll off of said instrument.

How do you seek to achieve the sonic objective of black backgrounds?

However possible.

When I go to Walt Disney Concert Hall I do not hear black backgrounds. I hear a fairly high level of ambient noise, including attendees shuffling around in their chairs, coughing, whispering, sniffling, musicians turning pages, etc.

Out of my list of possible objectives of high-end audio I personally seek to "recreate the sound of an original musical event" or to "create a sound that seems live." Neither of these objectives prioritizes black backgrounds, because I do not hear black backgrounds at Walt Disney Concert Hall.

One would want to capture, as close as possible, what one would hear, as if they were there. If you don't hear any black background at WDW, you would want to hear the high level of ambient noise, including attendees shuffling around in their chairs, coughing, whispering, sniffling, musicians turning pages, etc..

If a black background isn't present at the event, then a black background shouldn't be there when reproducing said event. That said, having a system that offers a black background will naturally offer more of the subtle nuances, macro and micro dynamics/detail and spatial informational/locational cues than that of a system that does not have the ability to offer black backgrounds when called upon. IME/IMO.

Do you care about black backgrounds?

Absolutely.

If you care about black backgrounds, how do you achieve them?

From my own experience? Removing noise. Any type of noise. Whether it comes from the signal itself, the recording or source, A/C lines, thwarting the introduction of any EMI/RFI, losing any chance (or greatly reducing) common mode noise, jitter and the host of other causes of any other type of noise entering into any of the aforementioned. This can include but not be limited to the use of clocks, A/C line filters, Ethernet filters, shielded cables, proper room acoustics, proper power supplies and gear design that thwarts or minimizes any introduction of additional noise, grounding, gear isolation, proper terminations, and utilizing anything throughout the system or system chain that keeps the entire system's noise floor as low as possible.

This does not include any noise reduction that can put a veil on said reproductive effort.

Tom
 
IME "black background" can be achieved to some extent in very different ways.

1. Something smooths out the sound resulting in a subjectively black background, but also interferes with the fidelity of the recording.

2. There's less noise. Not exactly the same subjective "black" as #1, but can be considered a black background relative to a noisy system.

#1 is bad, #2 is good. My judgements, ymmv
 
What is the difference between black background and low noise floor?

Is black background what you get when you have a low noise floor?
 
When I go to Walt Disney Concert Hall I do not hear black backgrounds. I hear a fairly high level of ambient noise, including attendees shuffling around in their chairs, coughing, whispering, sniffling, musicians turning pages, etc.

The more you can hear the ambient space (what you refer to as "ambient noise") that is in the recording, the blacker the background of the system. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alrainbow
What is the difference between black background and low noise floor?

Is black background what you get when you have a low noise floor?

IMO, they are intertwined to a degree. But they are not the same thing.

Tom
 
The more you can hear the ambient space (what you refer to as "ambient noise") that is in the recording, the blacker the background of the system. ;)
Hmmm.

I think of ambient noise as the stuff I mentioned, like shuffling around in the seats and coughing and turning music pages.

I think of ambient space as a sense of the physical dimensions of the performance venue, and the sonic effect (reverberation time) of those dimensions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A-Line
Hmmm.

I think of ambient noise as the stuff I mentioned, like shuffling around in the seats and coughing and turning music pages.

I think of ambient space as a sense of the physical dimensions of the performance venue, and the sonic effect (reverberation time) of those dimensions.
It's all part of the same thing, but I'll rephrase then - the better you can hear ambient noise and have a sense of ambient space, then the blacker the background of the system. I'll add that if you perceive a recording as having a "black background", then it means that the recording captures very little ambient noise (just the direct sound of the instruments). So you can wish for a system which has a "black background" but not for a recording with a "black background".
 
Last edited:
What is the difference between black background and low noise floor?

Noise floor can be easily measured - it is an objective concept. Black background is mostly subjective.

Is black background what you get when you have a low noise floor?

Not forcefully. IMO we need a lot more of cumulative aspects - lack of glare, good layered imaging and excellent micro dynamics, for example.
And surely, an adequate recording,
 
So you can wish for a system which has a "black background" but not for a recording with a "black background".

Hmmm, respectfully, I would beg to differ. If you listen to Chris Jones' recording of Roadhouses and Automobiles (title track), you will notice an incredibly quiet background. This makes the actual music shine. Meanwhile, I have a Grateful Dead album that has a plethora of hash, noise and other artifacts that make the album unlistenable to me. And that is a Mo-Fi edition of that album as well. I would have to dig it out (haven't listened to it since I got it years ago) but the entire production and recording just bites. I think it was the Mars Hotel or something like that.

It has a lot to do with mic placement, the quality of the mic's/ recording gear, and the amount of gain used. It could even have something to do with the power supplied to each. These aren't the only factors, but they are audible in a recording IME/IMO. You can hear this difference when switching recordings.

Older Bob Marley recordings also come to mind.

Tom
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rensselaer
Hmmm, respectfully, I would beg to differ. If you listen to Chris Jones' recording of Roadhouses and Automobiles (title track), you will notice an incredibly quiet background. This makes the actual music shine. Meanwhile, I have a Grateful Dead album that has a plethora of hash, noise and other artifacts that make the album unlistenable to me. And that is a Mo-Fi edition of that album as well. I would have to dig it out (haven't listened to it since I got it years ago) but the entire production and recording just bites. I think it was the Mars Hotel or something like that.

It has a lot to do with mic placement, the quality of the mic's/ recording gear, and the amount of gain used. It could even have something to do with the power supplied to each. These aren't the only factors, but they are audible in a recording IME/IMO. You can hear this difference when switching recordings.

Older Bob Marley recordings also come to mind.

Tom
I just meant to say that one could have preferences for recordings, but I don't see how a a system with low noise is not something everyone would strive for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: treitz3
I don't see how a a system with low noise is not something everyone would strive for.

I think it depends on priorities. No audiophile takes affirmative action deliberately to increase the noise of his/her system.

But if low noise were a priority for me, I would have solid-state electronics instead of tube electronics, and I would prioritize digital over vinyl, and I would use balanced cables.
 
But if low noise were a priority for me, I would have solid-state electronics instead of tube electronics, and I would prioritize digital over vinyl, and I would use balanced cables.
Are you referring to measurements or perception? What counts is the latter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: treitz3
  • Like
Reactions: hopkins
Blach background to me means when there is no music there is no sound. Specifically, no ringing, no noise. Ambience is not only acceptable but required.
Attack and decay. Let's say you strike an open "E" on a guitar. Yoiu don't want any ringing. You don't want detail obscured by noise. Most often the note will blend in with the nest note or other instrument before decay is complete.
I listen primarily to headphones. That means I don't have to worry much about the room singing along with the music.
For a demo take a piano or guitar and strike one note. Wait for it to decay then strike another note. That silence in between notes is what I want.
Think about an anechoic chamber. No echo. Then think about a concert hall that does not require amplification. You want that ambience followed by the silence of the anechoic chamber.
I hope that makes sense.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: Tangram and PeterA
"Black Backgrounds"... low noise floor, is where high bit rates and DSD excel.
I do all my tape/vinyl transfers in 4xDSD at low levels.

Besides, the space between the notes determines if next note is right or wrong!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee and Gregadd
Perception -- only and always.
This is why the discussion is so complicated. the fact that we can prefer equipment over others that have better "measurements" (less noise), does not mean that "less noise" is not desirable, it may simply mean that the measurements could be incomplete.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing