Maybe now is the time for Jone Stone to bring his DarTZeel pricing in line with the rest of the world!!
darTZeel out of business?
- Thread starter marty
- Start date
Yes, leave it to dealers to defend exuberant prices. A lot of interest in this thread from audio sellers, disclosed ones and under the radar used equipment sellers, like Adam.
Who is affected by the pricing of luxury products ? If Darts were 1M per monobloc who here is affected ..!
Is this the same company which tries to sell 1 million dollar cartridge with no track record of cartridge?
I don't care much about the pricing of Darts, a product i have never been interested in. I don't like the silly path these companies are on, always trying to one-up each other on price, with little real sonic advances for the crazy moneyWho is affected by the pricing of luxury products ? If Darts were 1M per monobloc who here is affected ..!
Their second and third tier lines have to be worse for the pricing to make any sense, it's not trickle down advances, more often it's dumb down quality/sound for the lower lines, you pay first tier prices for second rate products.
I don't care much about the pricing of Darts, a product i have never been interested in. I don't like the silly path these companies are on, always trying to one-up each other on price, with little real sonic advances for the crazy money
I don’t care what companies do either since I react with my wallet but don’t you think MBL, a company whose products you seem to like, are a part of the uber-prived club? Again, I have no issue with what they do but it is hard to avoid these companies if you want a certain class of product.
I wasn't aware of that. I thought it was a hobby driven by music. Put together a system and change when there is a good reason to do so.
Those reasons for me have been mostly change in technology (proper ones like invention of streaming and CD before it) and change of room. I changed my turntable for aesthetic reasons. I've changed components a few times because music I was listening to had something missing with reference to a recent live performance.
I'm pulling a Chopin all-nighter. Having a short intermission, coffee, thinking what to play next ... Steven Hough if he's recorded Chopin at Snape Maltings? Need to search ... no hifi worries.
I would never buy MBL new at their current prices, prices have gone up like crazy there too. I wait till a Sheik or Oligarch sells to make room for something else, hopefully i get it before some of the used gear sellers get their hands on it and hike up the prices there too.
So the other times it is about the music, the musicians, and the meaning of the music?
Just for your knowledge, Allegedly Herve took schematic of the Studer A68 and made NHB-108 out of it, look at this thread there is schematic of both side by side:
darTZeel NHB-108 with Studer A68
STUDER A68 power amplifier (REVOX A740 shared circuit) It was introduced in 40 years ago about 1977. It according to the Recording Industry standard, the distortion is less than 0.1% . I start simulate A68 in TINA-TI, and feel the schematic looked a bit familiar . Then I find the...
Here is couple of comments from the thread that are illuminating:
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announcing a $1 million dollar phonocartridge is when they signed their own death warrant
Just for your knowledge, Allegedly Herve took schematic of the Studer A68 and made NHB-108 out of it, look at this thread there is schematic of both side by side:
darTZeel NHB-108 with Studer A68
STUDER A68 power amplifier (REVOX A740 shared circuit) It was introduced in 40 years ago about 1977. It according to the Recording Industry standard, the distortion is less than 0.1% . I start simulate A68 in TINA-TI, and feel the schematic looked a bit familiar . Then I find the...www.diyaudio.com
Here is couple of comments from the thread that are illuminating:
View attachment 137975
Again proves how modern tech is superior to vintage ones.
Just for your knowledge, Allegedly Herve took schematic of the Studer A68 and made NHB-108 out of it, look at this thread there is schematic of both side by side:
darTZeel NHB-108 with Studer A68
STUDER A68 power amplifier (REVOX A740 shared circuit) It was introduced in 40 years ago about 1977. It according to the Recording Industry standard, the distortion is less than 0.1% . I start simulate A68 in TINA-TI, and feel the schematic looked a bit familiar . Then I find the...
Here is couple of comments from the thread that are illuminating:
View attachment 137975
As someone noted:
I wouldn't call it a clone when the "original" differs in a number of crucial details, most importantly its application of feedback.
It looks like the NHB-108 circuit was inspired by a classic Studer design. Nothing wrong with it IMO - that is actually more common than you think. He has modified it, put much higher quality components, much beefier PSU and ended up with a superior product.
I don’t think darTZell going out of business will be much of a loss. It’s just another company focused on CNC-machined aluminum casework, with outsourced electronic boards made from off-the-shelf components.
What’s the point of having yet another Swiss company when brands like Soulution, Goldmund, Orpheus and CH Precision are thriving and come from the same origins and manufacturing similar stuff?
What’s the point of having yet another Swiss company when brands like Soulution, Goldmund, Orpheus and CH Precision are thriving and come from the same origins and manufacturing similar stuff?
Well, part quality is not meaningful when we are determining is something clone of something else..
(that is other topic, and yes: parts matter..), schematic and values is. Whats is different is feedback network.
-Is it really enough?
I know there is very little new under the sun when it comes to amplifier circuit design, but i would not feel comfortable claiming that this circuit design is my own..
I can only refrain someone more expert opinion on this:
"STUDER A68 power amplifier (REVOX A740 shared circuit)
It was introduced in 40 years ago about 1977. It according to the Recording Industry standard, the distortion is less than 0.1% .
I start simulate A68 in TINA-TI, and feel the schematic looked a bit familiar . Then I find the Voltage-Amplification-Stage (VAS) is almost same with the darTZeel NHB-108 internet uncovered schematic, there are 12 resistors value all fully equal and the all 4 pairs of transistor structure are exactly the same, only the feedback networks are different."
and:
What I take away from the DartZeel owner's message is the official and public recognition by a major player in the high-end segment that the price increases of recent years don't make much sense, either for manufacturers or for buyers (perhaps they suit others). Perhaps the start of a new trend towards lower prices
Well he is the one selling 1 million dollar founder cartridge. Blaming another company for his failure?What I take away from the DartZeel owner's message is the official and public recognition by a major player in the high-end segment that the price increases of recent years don't make much sense, either for manufacturers or for buyers (perhaps they suit others). Perhaps the start of a new trend towards lower prices
what did you expect innovation?
there is very little in amplifiers these days. e.g. Blöhbaum MTA SE tube amp with distortion values at full output like a transistor amp.
or Soulution did some interesting things in their amplifiers. It is perfectly legitimate to refine a good circuit from back then with a little salt and pepper.
the only thing you are not allowed to say is that you have reinvented the wheel.
On the subject of modern being superior, take a good old amplifier, use new capacitors for example and bring it up to the level of the delivery back then (specs) and you will see that the modern is not far superior.
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