darTZeel out of business?

[JackD201]

I think Herve simply wants to bring his creations to more people, plain and simple. Not only would that be more fulfilling it is a business truism that you will make more money selling more units at lower cost and at least a comparative margin as fewer of the high cost high margin units. These are the SUVs that allow Porsche to do all that crazy stuff we love but will never even consider purchasing. How idiotic for example of overweight me stumbling out in and out of a GT3 LOL So I go out and get the most crazy assed Cayenne LOL. Anyway.......

If anything if this all goes well, and there's now lots of free time for R&D the next Halo product assault from Herve will has a very high probability in my opinion of being epic in some way. The guy is probably buying some time and space so to enable himself to do what he really loves. Design not manage an entire concern.

 

[mglik]

Herve, IMO, is in a separate class as a designer.
My CTH 8550 MK2 is my destination piece.
I was an investment worth every penny.
A bargain for this level of performance.
In 53 years at this, I have never heard SQ like this.

 

[Music Master]

Hervé Delétraz is a arrogant jerk. How painful it must have been for him to have been informed by his accounting people that unless certain charges take place immediately that the company will sink. This type of arrogance has also affected dCS recently...just saying.

Just my opinion.

That is not at all what I have found since first purchasing Dartzeel equiptment back in 2006 and dealing directly with Herve and Dartzeel through the years. In fact, I have found Herve to be a true gentleman, who deeply cares about his customers and who on numerous occasions has gone way beyond what would be considered good customer service. I would never sell my Dartzeel equiptment, not just because of the incredible sound and exemplary workmanship, but also because of their demonstration, time and again, to stand behind their products. I only wish other high end manufacturers were as good as them when it comes to servicing their equiptment. I have spoken to any other owners of Dartzeel equiptment and they all felt the.same way. I have absolutely no financial or other connection with Dartzeel. I am just a thankful owner of their stellar eqiptment.

 

[ssfas]

If one really

I dont know where you soldyour watch but there is an entire Industry that buys and sells preowned watches that is HUGE. Unless your watch was not in good shape the watch definelty had value above what you sold it for. I am sorry to say that but you are incorrect, I worked for a company for a few years that started that business and that company , having been sold a few times, went form a 30million dollar a year business to over 2 billion in the last 8-9 years. Try Watchbox and there are many others Delray Watch Supply, Secondtime etc. etc.
I would bet you would have gotten a lot more for the Brequet.
I sold all of my Patek watches at a huge profit.

Audio has so many issues that I could write a book and most of them lie directly at the feet of an industry that is impatient and under capitalized.

If only it had been a Patek. It was purchased in California and it was a model that just was not suited to the UK market. Christie’s and Sotheby’s do watch auctions, there are other specialist auctioneers, some online, some live, some both. I did my research I got what I expected, through a specialist online auctioneer.

My father always used to wear collectible gold watches from Patek and audemar Piguet. In his latter years he wore an Apple Watch because he was more interested in knowing his heartbeat than the time. I’ve no doubt that these expensive brand watches have collectible investment value, not least because they can easily be put in a safety deposit box, transported overseas and easily converted into cash. In other words, the complete opposite of high-end audio.

 

[Elliot G.]

If only it had been a Patek. It was purchased in California and it was a model that just was not suited to the UK market. Christie’s and Sotheby’s do watch auctions, there are other specialist auctioneers, some online, some live, some both. I did my research I got what I expected, through a specialist online auctioneer.

My father always used to wear collectible gold watches from Patek and audemar Piguet. In his latter years he wore an Apple Watch because he was more interested in knowing his heartbeat than the time. I’ve no doubt that these expensive brand watches have collectible investment value, not least because they can easily be put in a safety deposit box, transported overseas and easily converted into cash. In other words, the complete opposite of high-end audio.

Watchbox is everywhere. if you still have the model and it pics they can tell you exactly what it’s worth

 

[ssfas]

That is not at all what I have found since first purchasing Dartzeel equiptment back in 2006 and dealing directly with Herve and Dartzeel through the years. In fact, I have found Herve to be a true gentleman, who deeply cares about his customers and who on numerous occasions has gone way beyond what would be considered good customer service. I would never sell my Dartzeel equiptment, not just because of the incredible sound and exemplary workmanship, but also because of their demonstration, time and again, to stand behind their products. I only wish other high end manufacturers were as good as them when it comes to servicing their equiptment. I have spoken to any other owners of Dartzeel equiptment and they all felt the.same way. I have absolutely no financial or other connection with Dartzeel. I am just a thankful owner of their stellar eqiptment.

The one and only time I stopped in Geneva was when I was driving with my girlfriend, now wife, to Italy, in 1992. We stopped at the café and ordered a bowl of soup. It almost bankrupted me. apparently, they have the highest average earnings in the world of any normal country. They don’t work that fast, either. other than a couple of business trips, I’ve avoided buying anything made in Switzerland ever since. given their purchasing power, I wonder if these guys really appreciated how people in poor nations (basically everyone else) perceived the cost of our products.

 

[Dierkx1]

Herve, IMO, is in a separate class as a designer.
My CTH 8550 MK2 is my destination piece.
I was an investment worth every penny.
A bargain for this level of performance.
In 53 years at this, I have never heard SQ like this.

+1 from a CTH-8550 owner

 

[Kingrex]

Sadly this is true. Most, if not all, hifi forums are mainly about the equipment and the buying and selling of that equipment with very little, if any, focus on the music itself.

Just my opinion.

Its not a bad thing. Its what it is. There are plenty of forums about music and nothing to do with the playback equipment. We gravitate to what we enjoy. I enjoy messing with gear. I'm thinking about a new phono pre. Can't help myself.
Also bought cork floor for my listening room and a 42 space Copper NQ panelbpard to replace my loadcenter. Looked at my wire bobbin and #10 solid also. I dig tuning my setup for optimum playback. I poke around with speakers also. Thinking I want to try a single full range driver. Get rid of that peaky crossover.

 

[dminches]

And Gryphon, Magico, Wilson, MSB, Wadax, Lampizator, Taiko, VAC, Acora etc etc etc.
Schiit is one of the few that has remained true to a very good product for a mass market budget.

Do you have intimate knowledge of the financial stability of any of these companies? Not sure how you can make that statement.

 

[dminches]

Sadly this is true. Most, if not all, hifi forums are mainly about the equipment and the buying and selling of that equipment with very little, if any, focus on the music itself.

Just my opinion.

That’s why they are called hifi forums. They are more about the equipment than the music. Is that an issue? I don’t think so. If you want to just talk about music spend time on the Stevehoffman forums. There are hundreds if not thousands of posts every day about music.

 

[Kingrex]

Do you have intimate knowledge of the financial stability of any of these companies? Not sure how you can make that statement.

I am only saying the brand name companies charge exorbitant prices. Like Dartzeel. I am saying nothing about their business health or the direction they have chosen to take.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Hervé Delétraz is a arrogant jerk. How painful it must have been for him to have been informed by his accounting people that unless certain charges take place immediately that the company will sink. This type of arrogance has also affected dCS recently...just saying.

Just my opinion.

This is the ultimate Worlds Best BS , you obviously don't know Herve at all ...

Just my Opinion ...!

 

[Kingrex]

I would also support the sentiment that Herve and the people supporting Dartzeel are fine people. They treated me extremely well. They took good care of the guy who bought my 108. They did take too long to get the work done. But I hear that across many brands. Then others have instant support. Usually the ones adjusting software.

 

[dminches]

I am only saying the brand name companies charge exorbitant prices. Like Dartzeel. I am saying nothing about their business health or the direction they have chosen to take.

Not sure how you define “exorbitant”. For one, Lampizator has a whole line of DACs that start well under $10k. Yes, they have a $60k but that is their flagship product. Compared to a lot of other brands, that isn’t that expensive.

 

[Bruce B]

Folks mentioning darTZeel (or any piece of audio equipment) as an "investment" is like me saying my AMG is an investment... ain't happening!!

 

[gleeds]

Sounds like Dartzeel is going to try and do what many have been asking for. Manufacture a top flight product for an affordable price

Companies who are successful and premium priced, when their business hits a challenge, are tasked with the decision to sell a number of products at a listed retail price, or sell proportionally more at a proportionally lower retail price. Internal costs per unit rise with producing more units (if the business is optimized) and that becomes a driver. Several high-end companies (YG Acoustics, Borreson, Aavik, DCS) have taken to introducing a "value" line of quality products, while retaining their upper-end product line. Sounds like DartZeel is taking the same approach.

If DartZeel has been running lean in their high-priced production, the movement to a higher-volume, lower priced business model requires careful consideration and planning.

Seeing someone thoughtfully comment rationally on the realities and challenges of running a low-volume bespoke business such as DarTZeel is refreshing. This is unlike a member who unequivocally stated that the company could make their products at 1/2 the price and still make adequate margins. I agree that all high-end companies should try to address the needs of the less well-heeled people who enjoy a bit of the brand's excellence. That said, that is easier said than done.

 

[Bruce B]

This is unlike a member who unequivocally stated that the company could make their products at 1/2 the price and still make adequate margins. I agree that all high-end companies should address the needs of well-heeled people who enjoy a bit of the brand's excellence. That said, that is easier said than done.

Weiss did it with one of his DAC's. For years he sold a DAC to Pro Audio Professionals at a decent price.... he then took the same exact DAC and put a "purdy" faceplate on it and charged double to the Audiophiles!!

 

[Iamrael]

I can’t help but think of what Goldmund did with “Job”.

 

[Lagonda]

Seeing someone thoughtfully comment rationally on the realities and challenges of running a low-volume bespoke business such as DarTZeel is refreshing. This is unlike a member who unequivocally stated that the company could make their products at 1/2 the price and still make adequate margins. I agree that all high-end companies should try to address the needs of the less well-heeled people who enjoy a bit of the brand's excellence. That said, that is easier said than done.

Yes, leave it to dealers to defend exuberant prices. A lot of interest in this thread from audio sellers, disclosed ones and under the radar used equipment sellers, like Adam.

 

[Elliot G.]

Why?

I agree that all high-end companies should try to address the needs of the less well-heeled people who enjoy a bit of the brand's excellence.

Why? That is not nor ever will be a reality. Should Rolls Make economy cars? OUr company makes the best speakers we can and the price is what it has to cost. We don't build to a number ? Oliver makes the best speakers he can with all the technology and experience and at the end the price shows up by the cost of the items needed to produce the item. He wont make a 5000 speaker and compromise his vision to build something he has no passion for. The reverse however is the issue. Companies that make expensive stuff only because they think they can make a lot of money.
There are too many high end companies for the size of the market. I believe that. There are too many places selling very expensive equipment and many are not qualified to do so. These are issues that probably will never get solved.If you go to Munich show once and Axpona Show you can see so many new companies. Its great to have products but it takes more than a product to be successful. It takes a plan and the finances to run that plan.
This Industry lacks patience to grow the right way and the capital to make that happen. I wish this wasn't the truth.
Don't even get started on marketing , thats a real comedy